Best passive attenuator?

TTBZ

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Honestly, for home use, I'd consider a Reactive Load and speaker cab loader. Offers you so much more flexibility.

https://medium.com/fretboard/how-to-get-a-great-guitar-tone-at-low-volume-without-a-speaker-cabinet-5bfd0371f9f6

I'm a bit evangelistic about this approach, but that's because the tones I'm getting are incredible. Stereo too, really nice.

I'm currently considering this approach again too for at home headphones playing, rather than getting into digital with a HX Stomp. It does work out more expensive and faffy but I do like the idea of still playing my real amp and just modelling the speaker/mic. Could also get my dream 1987x amp as I'd never get to crank it otherwise!

Just can't decide if it's really worth it when digital is so good & versatile, but I did have a Captor briefly and was happy with the recorded tones through IRs. HXS just seems so versatile, could be used as an FX unit for band as well as a headphone practice solution.

So this isn't a complete hijack, my 2p is that the Hotplate is a bit cack, Two Notes Captor excellent but has a fixed -20dB attenuation which might not be enough. Would be interested to see what the cheaper Bugera attenuator is like being used as dummy load at 100% attenuation. UAD Ox looks excellent but very pricey plus you can only edit your presets with Apple devices which sucks balls.

steven70

k

clarkefan

Before you spend loads try a volume pedal or "volume pot in a box" type solution in the fx loop.  

Costs relatively little ( @Danny1969 does one for 20 quid which might fit?) and might do the job for you.  

You can't overdrive the power valves, but you do get to crank things a lot, works for me.

soma1975

Tone King Iron Man 2 Mini is amazing.

TTBZ

@steven70 yep that's true, it must be the loudest 50w ever. They just sound so bloody good though and addictive to play. In reality I wouldn't even get to use a Studio Vintage at full pelt so it would indeed be pointless.

Jonathanthomas83

steven70 said:

I have a Rock Crusher...on the plus side, you can select impedance. 
Sound wise - not that impressed tbh, it's just about OK for knocking 3db off, which has enabled gigging with some non MV amps.
Sounds a bit....mushy....have used with a few amps.
That said, have not tried other attenuators  

@TTBZ - I tried using an attenuator with a  1987x and honestly, you had to knock so much off to do even a reasonable sized gig, it kind of defeated the object- bedroom levels went through power tubes like... Sure you've probably done research etc but, those plexis are loud, as in 'I've never heard anything like' it loud...go for the experiment but, just saying likes

Edit, re read and sorry that's not what you're saying...I'll read the thread properly next time. Anyway, the 87x went through tubes like nobody's business at bedroom level...maybe was the amp. 

Cheers

Think that's the point, it's not bedroom levels with a load box. 

And @TTBZ do it, I've never been happier. Got a 100w Mesa Dual Rec cooking, as well as being able to play my Studio Vintage at full pelt...through my headphones at low volume! Stunning, seriously.

TTBZ

Jonathanthomas83 said:

And @TTBZ do it, I've never been happier. Got a 100w Mesa Dual Rec cooking, as well as being able to play my Studio Vintage at full pelt...through my headphones at low volume! Stunning, seriously.

Thinking my plan is the HX Stomp to start with, as if I'm not satisfied with the modelling I could then just get a Captor and use the HX as a posh IR loader and interface with FX. Combined thats still cheaper than any other solution or all in one device with the features I'd want 

/Hijack

robmattrach

I have the Jettenuator and love its simplicity, its ability to connect to 4/8/16 ohms equipment and the price!  I have tried volume pedals /pad attenuators etc in effects loop etc and they were not as effective or good as the Jet City for my rig.  Have not tried any other attenuator device, but i am certainly happy with the Jet City for my needs.    

Thomann did a good video on different attenuators they sell but not the powerbrake or hot plate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaSQBleWD2M    

merlin

I have a Rivera RockCrusher if you want....

Philtre

For the price, a Jettenuator is not bad. I picked a s/h one up for a good price here and it works well with my Marshall Origin 20. Glad I didn't shell out more when this does the job fine.

Rocker

What about using a smaller (low power) amp @fretmeister?

fretmeister

Rocker said:

What about using a smaller (low power) amp @fretmeister?

The amp is a Marshall Studio Classic - and it's already running in 5W mode.

The clean sounds are lovely without the need for an attenuator. But the overdrive sounds are lacklustre until the power section of the amp opens up a bit. Then it's a brilliant sound. I suspect the speakers in my cab are quite efficient too, making it louder than it would be with different speakers.

The volume is fine when the house is empty, but it's not fair on the family if they are in.

I don't need to knock down the volume by a great deal, just a little to allow the Master Volume to be high enough to get the power valves working properly.

I might try the Jettenuator. It's modestly priced and from what I gather built well enough.

lukedlb

Are there any issues with the power brake? I would run it into a 100 watt ‘72 superlead or a 50 watt head. Any damage to the amps? Any tone loss? Does it reduce to bedroom level? Does it have DI?

ICBM

lukedlb said:

Are there any issues with the power brake? I would run it into a 100 watt ‘72 superlead or a 50 watt head.

No issues. It's rated for the full power of a 100W Marshall - which in practice means a lot more than that.

lukedlb said:

Any damage to the amps?

Shortened valve life if you thrash it continuously. It will also probably expose any other reliability issues the amp may have, but that's not the fault of the attenuator .

lukedlb said:

Any tone loss?

Yes, progressively worse as you go below halfway on the dial - but not as bad as some, and it's very transparent over the first few.

lukedlb said:

Does it reduce to bedroom level?

Not quite, with a non-MV 50 or 100W amp. Even the quietest setting (-30dB, although they're not marked they're in 3dB steps) is too loud for 'bedroom' volume with a fairly efficient cab. But not *that* far off... definitely possible with a MV amp.

lukedlb said:

Does it have DI?

Technically no, but if you're running it at one of the lowest settings you can use one of the *speaker* outputs as a DI safely, either with or without a cab connected - it's actually safe to not connect a cab below -9dB, since the load resistor is fully engaged on all settings below that. It's not emulated though, so you will need IRs in whatever you're connecting it to.

lukedlb

ICBM said:

lukedlb said:

Are there any issues with the power brake? I would run it into a 100 watt ‘72 superlead or a 50 watt head.

No issues. It's rated for the full power of a 100W Marshall - which in practice means a lot more than that.

lukedlb said:

Any damage to the amps?

Shortened valve life if you thrash it continuously. It will also probably expose any other reliability issues the amp may have, but that's not the fault of the attenuator .

lukedlb said:

Any tone loss?

Yes, progressively worse as you go below halfway on the dial - but not as bad as some, and it's very transparent over the first few.

lukedlb said:

Does it reduce to bedroom level?

Not quite, with a non-MV 50 or 100W amp. Even the quietest setting (-30dB, although they're not marked they're in 3dB steps) is too loud for 'bedroom' volume with a fairly efficient cab. But not *that* far off... definitely possible with a MV amp.

lukedlb said:

Does it have DI?

Technically no, but if you're running it at one of the lowest settings you can use one of the *speaker* outputs as a DI safely, either with or without a cab connected - it's actually safe to not connect a cab below -9dB, since the load resistor is fully engaged on all settings below that. It's not emulated though, so you will need IRs in whatever you're connecting it to.

Thank you @ICBM . I always appreciate your answers. I just got off the phone to my Marshall mate who warned me off them as he knows someone who went through two transformers on the re-edition Marshall (hw45?). His argument was use the cash on a high quality overdrive that’ll push the amp at low volume. 

ICBM

lukedlb said:

Thank you @ICBM . I always appreciate your answers. I just got off the phone to my Marshall mate who warned me off them as he knows someone who went through two transformers on the re-edition Marshall (hw45?). His argument was use the cash on a high quality overdrive that’ll push the amp at low volume. 

That says a lot more about the quality of Marshall's amp transformers than it does about the Powerbrake!

I've been using mine as an amp test load for twenty years - I've run literally hundreds of amps through it at flat-out thrash levels, and not a single one has ever died that wasn't going to anyway when used in the real world through a speaker cab. Which is the point, of course - and if, as much more commonly nothing bad happens, then the amp will be fine in normal use.

Marshall amp transformers on the other hand... I've changed more of those than all other brands put together.

crunchman

Whatever you get, it won't sound great with high levels of attenuation.  If you want to take off 5dB, then most attenuators will probably sound ok.  If you want to take off 15dB, they won't sound so good.  If you want to take off 25dB for home use, then you might as well use a Blackstar Fly.

Different attenuators work well with different amps.  I had a Weber Mini Mass that worked really well with a Hot Rod Deluxe, but sounded dreadful with another amp.  I was just using the Mini Mass to tame the HRD a bit on stage, not to take it down to "bedroom" levels - basically to warm up the clean sound a bit.  I used pedals for drive.

These days, I prefer power scaling in the amp that drops the voltage on the power valves.  To my ears it sounds a lot better.  Not sure how easy that would be to install in a PCB Marshall though.

 A decent overdrive pedal is the other option.

ICBM

crunchman said:

If you want to take off 25dB for home use, then you might as well use a Blackstar Fly.

Now that is going too far .

crunchman said:

These days, I prefer power scaling in the amp that drops the voltage on the power valves.  To my ears it sounds a lot better.  Not sure how easy that would be to install in a PCB Marshall though.

I don't like it at all, but it shouldn't be too difficult to install in a standard Super Lead or MV Marshall, I don't think. Although they do use a PCB, it's only for the preamp and phase inverter circuitry really - al the big stuff is off-board, and there's plenty of room.

crunchman said:

 A decent overdrive pedal is the other option.

Definitely.

Rocker

fretmeister said:

Rocker said:

What about using a smaller (low power) amp @fretmeister?

The amp is a Marshall Studio Classic - and it's already running in 5W mode.

The clean sounds are lovely without the need for an attenuator. But the overdrive sounds are lacklustre until the power section of the amp opens up a bit. Then it's a brilliant sound. I suspect the speakers in my cab are quite efficient too, making it louder than it would be with different speakers.

The volume is fine when the house is empty, but it's not fair on the family if they are in.

I don't need to knock down the volume by a great deal, just a little to allow the Master Volume to be high enough to get the power valves working properly.

I might try the Jettenuator. It's modestly priced and from what I gather built well enough.

I understand where you are coming from @fretmeister. It may be that your best option is to use a very small amp (a Pignose?) and a good OD pedal rather than your big amp. I am not very keen on modeling amps as they tend to make all guitars sound the same! YMMV of course. 

fretmeister

A Pignose does not sound like a Marshall!

The newest generation modellers don't suffer from "all the same" anymore.

I've got a Helix and my guitars sound very different through it. More impressive is that basses sound very different through it too.