Flight MH370

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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited June 2019
    Paul_C said:
    Haych said:
    It's an interesting (and long) read.  One cannot rule out that it was a deliberate act on the part of the captain.  The article, at least to me, seems to suggest the captain must be at fault simply because no other credible explanation exists.

    I don't know if the truth will ever be known about what did actually happen.  Until then the easiest answer, and not an implausible one, is that it was pilot hijack.  That theory raises questions of its own, though.
    The pilot hijack looks like the one that best fits the known facts, and if I had to put a fiver on it that's the one I'd chose.

    You can make an argument for a fire, but it needs a lot more "if"s IMHO.
    It's the timing that bothers me, and the absence of a fire warning. For it to make any sense in my mind, the fire itself would have to get out of control almost instantaneously, at precisely the moment the captain was switching between international air trafic controllers. That's a big ask for my internal logic processing, so from that moment onwards it's all a mystery to me. However, I wouldn't rule out a fire without a deeper examination of the facts, as we are relying on the author of article to inform us what happened (a pilot himself).
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    Freebird said:

    It's the timing that bothers me. It would have to have happened almost instantaneously at the precise moment the captain was switching between international air trafic control.
    But that's what happened with EgyptAir 804.

    Two flights having onboard fires at that exact time is even odder, perhaps... but is it any odder than the only two Boeing 777s lost in normal cruise flight both being 777-200ERs made within a few line numbers of each other and belonging to Malaysian Air Lines, a few months apart? That coincidence has made a lot of people ask whether MH370 and MH17 are in some way linked.

    I think if I had to put money on it, I'd go for the pilot-hijack theory too I think - but I'm not sure.

    I'm not even sure we can completely rule out something more complicated and unlikely, until the plane is actually found. I think we'll be waiting a long time.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited June 2019
    ICBM said:
    Freebird said:

    It's the timing that bothers me. It would have to have happened almost instantaneously at the precise moment the captain was switching between international air trafic control.
    But that's what happened with EgyptAir 804.

    Two flights having onboard fires at that exact time is even odder, perhaps... but is it any odder than the only two Boeing 777s lost in normal cruise flight both being 777-200ERs made within a few line numbers of each other and belonging to Malaysian Air Lines, a few months apart? That coincidence has made a lot of people ask whether MH370 and MH17 are in some way linked.

    I think if I had to put money on it, I'd go for the pilot-hijack theory too I think - but I'm not sure.

    I'm not even sure we can completely rule out something more complicated and unlikely, until the plane is actually found. I think we'll be waiting a long time.
    I'd be good with the fire theory if it didn't happen at exactly the same moment the aircraft was switching between international air traffic controller. From that point onwards the story just seems to very strange. It would need to be looked at from a different perspective, as the author of that article has done a good job of highlighting the mystery element, and making it interesting to read.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    question I have about the pilot suicide, how did he prevent anyone trying to take control of the aircraft, or at least contacting the ground? I don't actually know much about air travel, but I assume there's no way to block mobile phones? Could he have depressurised the cabin, killed/incapacitated the co pilot etc?

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  • JezWyndJezWynd Frets: 6021
    edited June 2019
    VimFuego said:
    question I have about the pilot suicide, how did he prevent anyone trying to take control of the aircraft, or at least contacting the ground? I don't actually know much about air travel, but I assume there's no way to block mobile phones? Could he have depressurised the cabin, killed/incapacitated the co pilot etc?
    Cockpits can be secured from inside (as occurred on Germanwings flight). Captain would have waited until 1st Officer was out of cockpit and then locked the door. 

    It’s ironic that a security procedure that was instigated to prevent terrorists accessing the cockpit should also mean that anyone left in the cockpit is unreachable.
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited June 2019
    VimFuego said:
    question I have about the pilot suicide, how did he prevent anyone trying to take control of the aircraft, or at least contacting the ground? I don't actually know much about air travel, but I assume there's no way to block mobile phones? Could he have depressurised the cabin, killed/incapacitated the co pilot etc?
    This is actually covered in the article above, which was written by a commercial pilot. It's worth a read, so I won't disclose his theory in case I spoil it for you, or anyone else. In the past, I assessed the risk of flying as being purely mechanical in nature, but now it seems there are other things you also have to consider, such as a pilot having a very bad day.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • FreebirdFreebird Frets: 5821
    edited June 2019
    JezWynd said:
    Cockpits can be secured from inside (as occurred on Germanwings flight). Captain would have waited until 1st Officer was out of cockpit and then locked the door. 

    It’s ironic that a security procedure that was instigated to prevent terrorists accessing the cockpit should also mean that anyone left in the cockpit is unreachable.
    Unintended consequences are all around us.
    If we are not ashamed to think it, we should not be ashamed to say it.
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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    edited June 2019
    Freebird said:
    VimFuego said:
    question I have about the pilot suicide, how did he prevent anyone trying to take control of the aircraft, or at least contacting the ground? I don't actually know much about air travel, but I assume there's no way to block mobile phones? Could he have depressurised the cabin, killed/incapacitated the co pilot etc?
    This is actually covered in the article above, which was written by a commercial pilot. It's worth a read, so I won't disclose his theory in case I spoil it for you, or anyone else. In the past, I assessed the risk of flying as being purely mechanical in nature, but now it seems there are other things you also have to consider, such as a pilot having a very bad day.
    will have another read, didn't see it 1st time.

    Another thing that occurred to me, why did he fly the plane over the ocean? I saw in the article that it may have been so it didn't crash into a populated area, but he's already happy to kill the crew and passengers. And why did he wait for the fuel to run out? He could've just crashed it the 1st chance he had, say when the 1st officer left the flight deck.
    EDIT: for me there are too many questions about the suicide theory for me to accept it, just doesn't stack up. The electrical fire explanation has fewer questions, and answers many of the ones I have.

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    VimFuego said:
    Freebird said:
    VimFuego said:
    question I have about the pilot suicide, how did he prevent anyone trying to take control of the aircraft, or at least contacting the ground? I don't actually know much about air travel, but I assume there's no way to block mobile phones? Could he have depressurised the cabin, killed/incapacitated the co pilot etc?
    This is actually covered in the article above, which was written by a commercial pilot. It's worth a read, so I won't disclose his theory in case I spoil it for you, or anyone else. In the past, I assessed the risk of flying as being purely mechanical in nature, but now it seems there are other things you also have to consider, such as a pilot having a very bad day.
    will have another read, didn't see it 1st time.

    Another thing that occurred to me, why did he fly the plane over the ocean? I saw in the article that it may have been so it didn't crash into a populated area, but he's already happy to kill the crew and passengers. And why did he wait for the fuel to run out? He could've just crashed it the 1st chance he had, say when the 1st officer left the flight deck. And giving the passengers 7 hours to try and get in seems chancy, I understand the doors can be locked, but I'm sure after 7 hours they'd be looking pretty weak on the hinges.
    EDIT: for me there are too many questions about the suicide theory for me to accept it, just doesn't stack up. The electrical fire explanation has fewer questions, and answers many of the ones I have.
    That’s the part I can’t quite fathom. If you’re on a murder suicide mission why would you be bothered about people on the ground in the first place? Why not intentionally crash the plane into the most densely populated city and take even more innocents with you? Why fly out to the ocean in sone weird act of nobility?

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    edited June 2019
    The explanation for that would be that he didn’t want anyone to know it was suicide. If it was deliberate, it was very well-planned - only the Inmarsat data gives any clue that the plane didn’t simply vanish off the face of the earth once it reached the Andaman Sea.

    If it was a suicide I would start looking by getting an oceanographic chart of the South Indian Ocean and work out which places that are very deep are within range of a glide from the 7th arc. Somewhere like this...

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamantina_Fracture_Zone

    ... because that’s what someone who was intending to make a plane vanish and knew its maximum range would do.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    ICBM said:
    The explanation for that would be that he didn’t want anyone to know it was suicide. If it was deliberate, it was very well-planned - only the Inmarsat data gives any clue that the plane didn’t simply vanish off the face of the earth once it reached the Andaman Sea.

    If it was a suicide I would start looking by getting an oceanographic chart of the South Indian Ocean and work out which places that are very deep are within range of a glide from the 7th arc. Somewhere like this... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamantina_Fracture_Zone

    Hmm, I find it slightly more than just a little ironic that his attempt to make it not look like a murder suicide has resulted in the only logically feasible theory being murder suicide. 

    Even if it was that meticulously planned I can’t see the pilot deliberately targeting the deepest part of that ocean. It’s inaccessible enough to make recovery almost impossible as it is and the chances of the plane running out of fuel (as the satellite data suggests it did) at the right moment to put it in the deepest trench is a stretch of the imagination. Even if the pilot could get it close to that point he’d have no control on how it drifted to its final destination on the sea floor. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

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  • Emp_FabEmp_Fab Frets: 24209
    Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on mine.
    Also chips are "Plant-based" no matter how you cook them.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    Haych said:

    Hmm, I find it slightly more than just a little ironic that his attempt to make it not look like a murder suicide has resulted in the only logically feasible theory being murder suicide.
    Only by accident, if he didn’t know about the Inmarsat data. If it wasn’t for that, the search area would be impossibly vast.

    Haych said:

    Even if it was that meticulously planned I can’t see the pilot deliberately targeting the deepest part of that ocean. It’s inaccessible enough to make recovery almost impossible as it is and the chances of the plane running out of fuel (as the satellite data suggests it did) at the right moment to put it in the deepest trench is a stretch of the imagination. Even if the pilot could get it close to that point he’d have no control on how it drifted to its final destination on the sea floor. 
    It wouldn’t matter - it’s a big area, and the plane would certainly sink almost straight down. It couldn’t end up more than a km or two from the ditching point at most, probably less.

    It’s also interesting that if the flight simulator data is genuine, the end point is roughly there.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    ICBM said:

    It’s also interesting that if the flight simulator data is genuine, the end point is roughly there.
    That in itself it a bit odd. If you’re going to those lengths to plan every detail of such an elaborate murder suicide why would you leave a flight sim with details of your plans?

    I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it’s things like this that make you go hmm. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    Haych said:

    That in itself it a bit odd. If you’re going to those lengths to plan every detail of such an elaborate murder suicide why would you leave a flight sim with details of your plans?

    I’m not a conspiracy theorist but it’s things like this that make you go hmm. 
    He didn't - he deleted the files. They were recovered later by a data specialist.

    But I agree...

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    Ah fair enough. I wasn’t aware of that. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    seems to me that suicide answers some of the questions, but so does a catastrophic fire, but neither answers all the questions. I think we can rule out hijacking, there seems to be no evidence. If the Malay authorities had done a better job, both whilst the 'plane was in the air and after with the investigation, then who knows, but they didn't.
    Honestly, the only rational explanation that answers all the questions is aliens.

    Or HAARP.

    Or chemtrails.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71959
    It still requires that although he was knowledgable enough about computers to build his own very sophisticated flight simulator, he didn't realise that deleted data could be recovered from a hard drive. Since it was on an external drive, wouldn't he just have destroyed it and dumped it somewhere it could never be traced?

    There are just so many things that don't quite add up whichever theory you look at.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • HaychHaych Frets: 5595
    Like radar being switched off and the Air Force choosing not to intercept?

    As I say, I’m not a conspiracy nut but when you look at the things that don’t add up you can easily see why people start claiming the Russians did it or it was an extraordinary rendition and diverted to Diego Garcia etc etc. 

    There is no 'H' in Aych, you know that don't you? ~ Wife

    Turns out there is an H in Haych! ~ Sporky

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  • VimFuegoVimFuego Frets: 15476
    the airforce not going up is the killer for me, surely their job is to intercept and investigate any suspicious aircraft? I can see it being incompetence, but how did that not come out during the investigation? Even if it wasn't made public, surely someone would've been made to fall on his sword?

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