Thoughts on unpotted PAF style pickups?

RandallFlagg

I played some new Gibson Custom Shop guitars recently, including some 60th anniversary '59 LPs and was a little surprised at the tone of the pickups, these were the new unpotted Custombuckers. I have since played them again and like them more than first time around. It's been a long while since I played a guitar with unpotted pickups and forgot how much they pick up the sound of the guitar body resonance, pick taps against the pickup cover etc. This extra capacity adds a definite liveliness and feel to the sound and they definitely impart a more vintage tone that rewards use of the volume and tone controls more.

I know some of the aftermarket pickup winders have been selling unpotted PAFs for a while ( OX4, Duncan Antiquities etc) but this is the first time I've known Gibson to fit them as stock.

What's your thoughts , experiences with unpotted PAF style pickups?

xscaramanga

I've tried twice, once with some unpotted Bare Knuckle Riff Raffs, and currently with some unpotted Mojo PAFs. 

I gave up and had the Riff Raffs potted, and I'm pretty sure I'll do the same with the Mojos. I don't really notice the extra liveliness or whatever people talk about. I don't remember noticing a tone change when I got the Riff Raffs back. I gig with an FRFR monitor angled up at me, and when I'm soloing with gain, it's horrible. I can't leave space in my solos because the second I stop playing, it shrieks. If I roll the volume off between licks I still get a moment of squeal at the start and end of each phrase. I could probably do it with the pickup selector, by having one pickup volume permanently rolled off all the way, but then I couldn't easily change pickups mid-solo. 

Basically it's terrible and I hate it. 

OilCityPickups

Not all pickup designs work well un-potted: the tighter the component fit and the more even and tight the pickup wind the better they work. Also uncovered humbuckers tend to avoid some of the squeal due to the lack of 'drumming' in the flat expanse of cover top. Also not all potting is created equal: for example Seymour Duncan uses vacuum potting that aggressively removes all air space ... whereas many smaller builders use 'short dip' potting that fixes components without filling the coil completely.

I would never recommend that people go for un-potted in high gain situations, though 'short dip' potting should be okay at all but full on metal gain levels. To give an example ... our PAF style pickups are short dipped as standard, whereas our metal style pickups get double potting, where the bare coils are potted before pickup assembly, then potted again after assembly.

Does potting make a difference to tone? Yes, but a small one, and a great tone is only a great tone if it's usable at the gain levels you need.

guitars4you

I also think it depends on the level of gain you use and also how much electronics is in the chain between the guitar and amp - Saturate the gain and/or add more 'processing' in between the signal path and the less differential you can detect between a paf potted and a paf un-potted

The more 'natural' the signal chain the more you can detect - Subtle but effective

Agree with Ash @OilCityPickups - the more gain you use with more volume and you'll probably wish you had potted p/ups

RandallFlagg

I guess Gibson are going for a more vintage accurate angle by now putting unpotted pickups in their new Custom Shop guitars. It will be interesting to see how players feel as these guitars get widely into circulation.

I noticed quite a difference in sound from the 2016 Custombuckers to these new Alnico III unpotted Custombuckers.

Here's a couple of examples of the new Gibson pickups:

PonchoGreg

I don't gig and don't jam at high volume (and generally use low to medium gain) so for this application I really like unpotted humbuckers. I have two sets: Duncan Antiquities in an LP and Forces Sweethearts from Ash in an SG, and I like that they seem to pick up a little extra resonance (a good test for me is the whole lotta love riff, when alternating between open strings and fretted near the nut). It just sounds livelier to my ears versus heavily potted pickups, but how much of that is just down to the potting...

Also, if playing loud/live, I doubt the negligible difference (to the audience) versus the drawbacks would be worth it.

ESBlonde

I'd rather hear the tone of the guitar than the 'tone' of the electronics overdriving. Thats not to say a bit of overdrive isn't appreciated and used. For me unpotted therfore has a real value. It I played very distorted tones a lot, I might feel differently.

OilCityPickups

ESBlonde said:

I'd rather hear the tone of the guitar than the 'tone' of the electronics overdriving. Thats not to say a bit of overdrive isn't appreciated and used. For me unpotted therfore has a real value. It I played very distorted tones a lot, I might feel differently.

I think giving the customer both options is the sensible thing for lower output pickups. I sell far more to high gain and metal world with my humbuckers, and I would constantly get returns due to squealing if I didn't double pot as standard.

For my own personal guitars I choose potted ... as I play a whole range of styles at a whole range of gain and processing levels, and I don't want to have to change guitars to one with potted pickups if I want to ramp up the gain.

jdgm

I have a nice archtop semi with Schaller Golden 50 pickups which are unpotted.

I don't play it at loud gigs of course. It sounds like a huge acoustic guitar, wonderful.