Tuner help please - Schaller to Kluson

I may change the tuners on my Pre-Historic Les Paul from Gibson branded Schallers to Kluson type tuners -  for appearance and to save a few ounces.

This is not my guitar pictured but the current tuners look like the picture below. I have a couple of questions if anyone can help.

What is the hole size for a Schaller tuner?

Do I need Tone pros TPKB3-N ? (25/64ths Large Hole/Bolt Bushing format)

Or do I need Regular type Klusons? (what is a good brand/source?)

Are any special tools required to remove the Schallers from the holes? (push fit??)

Any other thoughts? I am not too bothered about old screw holes. An "impression" left behind from the Schallers will probably annoy me but never mind.

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Comments

  • GuitarMonkeyGuitarMonkey Frets: 1883
    The Warmoth site has a useful summary of tuner hole diameters:

    To remove the tuners, just unscrew the collars and remove the small locating screw and they should just drop off.

    The Klusons you suggest should fit the holes fine.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    edited May 2014
    If the impression left by the Schallers will annoy you, I would just change the keys. You can get them in a wide variety of styles and materials, all of which are lighter than the lead-uranium alloy that the originals seem to be made from… you won't believe how heavy those keys are until you hold all six of them in your hand when you've taken them off!

    I've seen the traditional snot-coloured 'keystone' type on a guitar before - definitely screw-on with modern tuners, not the normal moulded-on type - but I can't find them online now…

    After much searching I can only seem to find them on some Gotoh ukelele tuners! Seems like there is a gap in the market here. I can't quite remember what the guitar I saw them on was, some sort of Japanese-made acoustic I think.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    edited May 2014
    OK. Thanks both.
    I will remove one of the Schallers to get an idea what it might look like.

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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    Please chip in with any other comments.
    Have just seen a guy on LPF insist that Schaller to Kluson saved 6 ounces.

    6 ounces!!!!

    I reckon the guitar weighs about 9.5 lbs. I say 6 ounces is a big difference.

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  • thermionicthermionic Frets: 9499
    edited May 2014
    28g per tuner, that is.

    Are your original tuners "large hole", i.e. 10mm? Kluson types are normally 8mm but you can get adapter bushings if the holes in your headstock are 10mm. Grover make Kluson-alikes that don't need adapter bushings, fitting 10mm holes with a hex nut. You might prefer bushings to a hex nut though. You'll probably have to plug the old screw holes as the new holes will be too close to them but if you're lucky the bodies of the new tuners will more or less cover them.
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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    If I have understood Guitar Monkey correctly I think he is confirming that the Tonepros TPKB3-N will fit the holes in my guitar. Tone Pros talk about this model being a replacement for "the holes of the Heavy/Bulky tuners". I am not sure why they don't just say "replaces Schallers and (whatever) ....." for clarity.


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  • GuitarMonkeyGuitarMonkey Frets: 1883
    Skipped said:
    If I have understood Guitar Monkey correctly I think he is confirming that the Tonepros TPKB3-N will fit the holes in my guitar.

    Yes, I reckon so. 
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    Skipped said:
    Please chip in with any other comments.
    Have just seen a guy on LPF insist that Schaller to Kluson saved 6 ounces.

    6 ounces!!!!

    I reckon the guitar weighs about 9.5 lbs. I say 6 ounces is a big difference.
    The M6 *keys* alone weigh two and a half ounces! I just checked a set I have. By comparison a set of plastic keys weighs a quarter of an ounce.

    That maybe doesn't sound like a lot of a difference, but it is when it's on the headstock end of your guitar.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • guitargeek62guitargeek62 Frets: 4067
    If you want a set of conversion bushings (10mm>8mm) let me know, I've got a spare set of nickel ones here that haven't been used. That way you're not restricted to just the Tonepros Klusons - although they are very nice! :)
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  • GuitarMonkeyGuitarMonkey Frets: 1883
    If the holes were counterbored correctly by Gibson, he shouldn't need them.
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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    If you want a set of conversion bushings (10mm>8mm) let me know, I've got a spare set of nickel ones here that haven't been used. That way you're not restricted to just the Tonepros Klusons - although they are very nice! :)
    I am going with the Tonepros but  thanks for the offer!

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    If the holes were counterbored correctly by Gibson, he shouldn't need them.
    That's why I always do larger-bore tuner refits like that - just in case anyone wants to put the originals back. It's hard to avoid marking the headstock face with the washers though, so it's not truly reversible even then.

    I've never seen it done like that on any production guitar I can think of.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    The Schaller tuners seem to be "stuck" to the finish on the back of the headstock. (These are the factory tuners that have been there since 1986).
    In other words, I have  removed the nut on the front and  the screw on the back on one tuner , and it is still stuck fast.
    I will probably leave the tuner swop until guitar goes in for a set-up. But I am just wondering what he will do? Is there a trick that does not involve hitting the barrel with a wooden mallet? 
    :D

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  • GagarynGagaryn Frets: 1553
    You could try heat, but a light tap should do it.
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