Classical guitars without classical necks?

guitargeek62

I like the idea of getting a classical acoustic, but I absolutely cannot stand the typical D profile that you find on them. I could adjust to the 50mm nut width, but ideally I guess I'd be looking for something with a similar feel to a nice 000.

Is anything out there in the <£500 bracket that has a C (or ideally, V) profile, and a 1-¾" nut?

tonyrath

Check out Coda who do yammys for about that price

guitargeek62

Wait, there are Yammys with that type of neck?!

DiscoStu

Try Breedlove. The ones I tried felt more like electric necks than acoustic.

Branshen

Check out the Yamaha NTX line. Great nylon string sound but with modern playability. 

guitargeek62

Good call @DiscoStu, the Pursuit Nylon looks lovely - I'll see if I can find one to try.

xHymnal

I've seen S/H Godin nylons for that price

guitargeek62

Can't say the Godins do anything for me tbh, good guitars though.

Just wondering if there'd be anything particularly wrong with this cheapy. I'm not after something pro-level, just playable with a nice tone for home use. 43mm nut, solid cedar top, £265... seems good on paper as a starter at least?

Islandape

Branshen said:

Check out the Yamaha NTX line. Great nylon string sound but with modern playability. 

I have an NTX1200.  Nice guitar, but the nut although narrower is still about 48mm vs the 41-2mm of my electric guitars-  and the neck's noticeably thicker.  It's enough to throw me a little though that might be my relative lack of playing experience.

This said, I sold my Ramirez due to it's neck being designed for gorillas - or given where it was made, guerrillas. I heard a story that Sergovia had huge hands as "the Meastro's" dominance of classical guitar thinking lead to much larger necks than were the case a century before.  Be interested if anyone can confirm that.

Still, you'll notice the tone not being as good, at least acoustically, on even the solid wood 1200.

Phil_aka_Pip

Andres Segovia did have pork sausages for fingers in later life. Any photo will show it.

I like hearing classical guitars being played properly, but dislike intensely the feel of nylon strings. It's like playing on wet rubber bands.

guitargeek62

That's partly why I don't want to spend a great deal on one initially. I love the sound, but I've hardly spent any time playing them - and the ones I have have mostly been seriously cheap crap that barely counted!

richardhomer

I've taken the compromise route with my nylon string. I have a Taylor which has a narrower fingerboard than a 'proper' classical - it also has a slight camber. That said, it still feels very different from a steel string acoustic.

If I spend any length of time playing it, I find I'm totally smitten with it. A nylon string guitar forces you to play differently. You can't bend, vibrato is applied differently, fingers rather than pick, etc.

All of these things conspire to lead your playing into different areas. I think every player should have one!

ICBM

guitargeek62 said:

Can't say the Godins do anything for me tbh, good guitars though.

Just wondering if there'd be anything particularly wrong with this cheapy. I'm not after something pro-level, just playable with a nice tone for home use. 43mm nut, solid cedar top, £265... seems good on paper as a starter at least?

I'm probably a lone voice in the wilderness again but I've always found Fender's acoustics to be hugely under-rated, so although I haven't tried this one I wouldn't be surprised if it's quite nice.

Conversely I've always found Yamahas (other than their very high-end models) to sound thin and artificial, and over-rated. Godins I just find a bit ordinary too.

I would also like a nylon-string with a smaller neck than the usual half tree, but it's more difficult since I don't want electrics and possibly not a cutaway… I'm really looking for something more like an old pre-'classical' parlour guitar, but with reasonable volume and projection and not fragile/valuable.

Phil_aka_Pip

I've never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood. Would a 3/4 size classical be a good substitute for a "pre-classical parlour"?

guitargeek62

Well I'm one of those oddballs that quite likes the Sonoran's so I'm not too concerned about buying an acoustic with Fender on it. I'd considered a ¾ size, but I think that would be too strange a compromise tbh, especially as I'm 6'3"!

Much like @ICBM, it's not that I want a classical to play classical on, but for the difference in feel, tone, & response. I'd thought about buying an antique something or other to noodle on, but I'm not really after a(nother) project guitar so that seems unlikely.

@RichardHomer - it was a Taylor that kicked off this bug funnily enough, it was a beautiful thing indeed - I can't remember the model name exactly but it looked like it would have fitted in the 6 or 8 series perhaps? The long-term plan is to perhaps get a 412CE-N if I find that I enjoy playing a cheapy enough to warrant it.

ICBM

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I've never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

I've owned several, and I always like them. The ones with the Strat headstocks especially :-P .

You're arguing with this man, anyway…

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_HzKJyX3Sim8/SKToNOA_d9I/AAAAAAAABwA/J9EC88W8K1k/s400/29g1qhj.jpg

And him

http://dylanchords.info/pictures/etd_kingman.jpg

And him

http://www.scottymoore.net/images/eguitars/movieguitars/wildwood/0818_0467.jpg

So you're wrong .

Phil_aka_Pip said:

Would a 3/4 size classical be a good substitute for a "pre-classical parlour"?

Not really. I borrow my daughter's one occasionally, but the string tension is too low to get a good sound out of it even though the body and neck are a nice size. It needs a full scale length...

guitargeek62

Yep, the Sonorans & Malibus are cool!

guitargeek62

I should point out that while I'd prefer a narrower nut width than 50-52mm, I'm more than happy to stick with chunky nut depths! 

The main part that puts me off is the usual flat spot on the back of a D profile (which I believe helps with "proper" classical hand positioning). I'd be very happy to find a baseball bat type neck on one, or even better a chunky hard V profile.

Phil_aka_Pip

@ICBM if those guys liked their guitars, fine, but I've still never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

I was once told about "high tension" nylon strings. Not that I'd be bothered with them, but would they be of use on a 3/4 ?

ICBM

Phil_aka_Pip said:

@ICBM if those guys liked their guitars, fine, but I've still never seen a fender acoustic that would not have done better service as firewood.

Well, I would have to admit that the really low-end models - the most common ones - tend to be a bit junk, but they're actually no worse than any other brands at that price… and I think most people put down the better models because of a belief that Fender have no business building acoustics, or particularly that the Strat headstock looks wrong on them - which I don't think they do, and those models are all much nicer. One of the nicest small-body acoustics I've ever played was a 60s Fender Newporter… I wish I'd bought it, but I was on holiday in Canada and I was "not allowed" .

Phil_aka_Pip said:

I was once told about "high tension" nylon strings. Not that I'd be bothered with them, but would they be of use on a 3/4 ?

Not enough, no - I've got those on it already. I need hard tension on a full scale length to get the tone I want.

tonyrath

7/8 guitar might be a solution. Yamaha do a Guitele for £55 or so which might just suit you. If you buy any classical guitar budget for the strings being lowered unless you buy a decent priced flamenco the strings will be too high for comfort. The alternative is a requinto which is smaller has 6 strings and is used in Latin American music it is tuned a 4th higher I believe. They start at about £250 ish