Which do Bassists Prefer?

Bellycaster

Tube Amps or Solid State?

I thought this section needed a new discussion.

I know it may be a bit generalising BUT.

As a Guitarist, it has become apparent that most (not all) other Guitarists crave the tonal harmonics and nuances of a well made "Tube" amp.

But what is the "Goal" tone for Bassists. I know very little about Bass Amplification. Do many companies produce Bass "Tube" Amps. Is the Bass, as an Instrument more suited to Solid State?

I do love lots of Bass tones I hear live or on records but I never stopped to think in depth about what players use.

I do know that if I ever went to see a live band and the Bassist was using a Trace Elliot, I knew I was gonna love the sound.

Discuss

:-)

 

monquixote

Tube bass amps that pack serious power are both insanely heavy and insanely expensive. 

Solid state tends to be the norm with a move to class D in recent times spearheaded by Markbass and TC. 

The main difference is that there is a lot of high end SS bass gear. 

Modellers don't really seem to be a big thing in bass land. 

IanSavage

Yep, the big thing in bass amps at the minute is the modern, lightweight Class D stuff (with the Holy Grail being a powerful, well-specced lightweight head with proven reliability, the last of which obviously won't be there for a while yet); rock bands with roadies will still often go full-valve (Ampeg SVT, Marshall VBA, Laney Nexus) but as quixote says, they're stupidly heavy and usually really expensive. 

There's still a fair few doing the 'valve/SS hybrid preamp' thing, but they seem to gradually be falling by the wayside; lightweight's where it's at. Modelling is NOT, and never has been (Line 6's 'pro' bass gear REALLY didn't sell well, partly because bassists just aren't interested - I actually don't mind them, but I'd never use all the sounds in one). 

Bellycaster

Cheers Lads, good info.

ICBM

I still prefer old-school solid-state Class AB, possibly with a valve in the preamp. I haven't heard any Class Ds that have sounded quite as good yet - they seem to lack a certain 'thump' or something. That said I do like a thick, dirty bass tone about as far removed from the modern 'transparent' thing as possible. I like valve bass amps too but the cost and weight relative to the power output is offputting - although you can get away with a surprisingly low-powered amp if you don't want it clean.

My current amp is a 500W Class AB 1x15" combo with a valve in the preamp, and it does weigh a ton (or 114lb to be accurate) but it still really shifts air at the bottom end in a way I've never heard a modern lightweight amp do.

Paul_C

my last "proper" gigging rig was a Markbass 3x10 combo with an ART TubePAC preamp/comp in front - mightily loud and thumpy

( I was in a reggae band, the first band I've ever been in where I was regularly told to turn up )

Bellycaster

@ICBM

500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

monquixote

Bass amps need considerably higher wattages. 

300-500w is pretty typical. 

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM

500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

That's quite low-powered by modern bass amp standards .

As with my 100W guitar amps, I don't crank it right up either - actually not a good idea with this amp, since it's capable of blowing its own speaker if you do, as I discovered when I tried to sell it to someone a while back . After that I decided it was safer to keep it... although one day I might get an extension cab just to find out what it can really do .

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it. The Class Ds I've heard all sound tighter, more like they're being restricted - they can be very punchy, but it sounds like a hard short punch without a follow-through, if you see what I mean! More accuracy but less energy.

I can understand why someone who wants a clean transparent sound might prefer the Class D though.

Sporky

A lot of Class D designs I've seen have underrated power supplies, and rely on discharging the smoothing caps to deliver peak power - that could be it.

monquixote

There seems to be a lot of BS in the power ratings as well. 

Most of the products on the market use the B&O Ice Power, but the quoted ratings of the amps vary all over the place. 

Bellycaster

@ICBM

 

I was picturing the amp scene from "Back to the Future" when I read your post. Man sent flying across the room from giant speaker explosion.

 

I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

I am learning about power requirements though, higher than I assumed.

ICBM

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM

I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

Peavey T-Max.

Having thought about it, the correct technical description for what I like about the sound of it is "welly" . It just has a lot of it...

It is bloody heavy though. And quite an awkward shape, like a lot of bass combos/cabs - luckily it's on wheels and I can back the car right up to the workshop door. I can totally understand why people without that luxury might like smaller and lighter amps - in fact that's why I was selling it.

Sporky

Low frequencies need more power.

monquixote

Even if you don't like class D bass has got a lot more portable because of Neo drivers. 

Bellycaster

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM

500 Watts? I never knew you had your own Castle up there in the Highlands.

That's quite low-powered by modern bass amp standards .

As with my 100W guitar amps, I don't crank it right up either - actually not a good idea with this amp, since it's capable of blowing its own speaker if you do, as I discovered when I tried to sell it to someone a while back . After that I decided it was safer to keep it... although one day I might get an extension cab just to find out what it can really do .

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it. The Class Ds I've heard all sound tighter, more like they're being restricted - they can be very punchy, but it sounds like a hard short punch without a follow-through, if you see what I mean! More accuracy but less energy.

I can understand why someone who wants a clean transparent sound might prefer the Class D though.

@ICBM

The Brown Note? 

 

Seriously though I bet it does pack a punch.

I was just listening to Pink Floyd "One of These Days" and was imagining that Bass tone as having "Welly".

IanSavage

ICBM said:

It's the effortless thump of it like - huge bottom-end punch without it ever seeming like it's trying hard, and that it could deliver far more if you were to ask it. 

That's my kinda amp of choice as well; I had to get a wheeled suitcase to transport my Marshall DBS7400 'cos it's beastly-heavy, but well worth it for the power.

ICBM said:

Bellycaster said:

@ICBM

I'd love to here that amp actually, now you've repaired it. I never did ask what make it is?

Peavey T-Max.

Having thought about it, the correct technical description for what I like about the sound of it is "welly" . It just has a lot of it...

Yeah, the old US-made Peavey bass stuff is usually great. Plenty of iron, over-engineered to shite, goes and goes and goes. My ex-drummer's had the same TNT130 combo in his rehearsal studio for about 15 years, and only ever had to change one blown speaker; and there's NO way you should be able to get away with 130W alongside a loud drummer, but you can  

chrispy108

I really liked my Yamaha BBT combo, which is a 500w Class D amp with a modelling pre-amp, and a 1x15 speaker.

I pretty much only used one sound, but it's so flexible, my main preset had a bit of grind, some compression, and alot of EQing (a low shelf, low-mid, mid, hi-mid and high-shelf), and a noise gate. Would be a pain to do separately!

ICBM

IanSavage said:

Yeah, the old US-made Peavey bass stuff is usually great. Plenty of iron, over-engineered to shite, goes and goes and goes. My ex-drummer's had the same TNT130 combo in his rehearsal studio for about 15 years, and only ever had to change one blown speaker; and there's NO way you should be able to get away with 130W alongside a loud drummer, but you can  

I always liked these too - and its bigger and unimaginatively-named brother the Combo 300. I mean come on... if the little one is a TNT the big one should be at least a MOAB or something! The only real snag with them is the ridiculous single top handle. At least the T-Max has side handles.

mikenewell

monquixote said:

Tube bass amps that pack serious power are both insanely heavy and insanely expensive. 

Solid state tends to be the norm with a move to class D in recent times spearheaded by Markbass and TC. 

The main difference is that there is a lot of high end SS bass gear. 

Modellers don't really seem to be a big thing in bass land. 

Need we say more, got it in 1...

Aswell as playing guitar I play bass, for my gigs I use a Gallien Krueger BK600 head (300w) and A 2x10 GK cab with 700w of Eminence Delta, and for me It kicks a$$ its always been loud enough + its running 8ohms not the 4ohm minimum so technically amp only puching 180w!! the cab weighs a ton though (

Blueingreen

10 years or so ago I was playing bass using an SWR Grand Prix preamp into a QSC PLX 1602 and a couple of SWR 2 x 10s. Nice sound but a lot of stuff to lug around. Loud but it needed to be in a 9 piece funk band. I haven't even picked up a bass guitar in years so I'm well out of touch with recent changes in gear technology.  Would I be right in thinking that it would be possible to do a similar job with a much lighter rig these days?