Solutions for rehearsal monitoring

monquixote

OK so here is the setup. 

My new band have access to unlimited free rehearsal time in the evening in a small office type room. We have no storage there so we have to bring and take what we use and limited car space.

So far we've just been playing out of amps, but the small and non acoustic nature of the room means it's very loud and very washy. We did a first rehearsal with a singer last night using our PA. This kind of worked, but had a few limitations.

Shifting and setting up the PA and taking it down again is time and space consuming

The small room means the PA really wants to feed back and it get's crazy loud in the room

So we need to think of another solution. 

The two things we've thought about are buying some wedge monitors and using them in rehearsal, or buying a bigger mixer and going towards some kind of IEM based solution. 

As well as rehearsal we probably need to do one or other of these things before we start gigging anyway.

If I went the IEM route I'd probably not bring my amp to rehearsal and use something like a Tech21 Blonde pedal into the desk. 

Thoughts?

ICBM

Play quieter.

Yes, seriously .

If that isn't going to work - you have a loud drummer, for example - try putting the PA cabs on the floor leaning back against the wall like wedge monitors. That will help put them in the mic's 'rejection zone' and also tend to reduce the standing waves that form when they're facing across a small room, and means that you don't have to carry or set up stands.

If you really can't play quieter at all due to the drums, it might be worth suggesting the drummer gets a practice kit - something like the Arbiter Flats which actually work very well - they sound surprisingly good, are not *that* quiet but are less overpoweringly boomy than normal drums, and are small and light to transport. Not that expensive either, and you can use them for acoustic-y gigs too so they have a 'real' purpose as well as just for practicing.

monquixote

ICBM said:

Play quieter.

Yes, seriously .

If that isn't going to work - you have a loud drummer, for example - try putting the PA cabs on the floor leaning back against the wall like wedge monitors. That will help put them in the mic's 'rejection zone' and also tend to reduce the standing waves that form when they're facing across a small room, and means that you don't have to carry or set up stands.

If you really can't play quieter at all due to the drums, it might be worth suggesting the drummer gets a practice kit - something like the Arbiter Flats which actually work very well - they sound surprisingly good, are not *that* quiet but are less overpoweringly boomy than normal drums, and are small and light to transport. Not that expensive either, and you can use them for acoustic-y gigs too so they have a 'real' purpose as well as just for practicing.

Yes that would be my ideal choice, I'm not a fan of rehearsing loud but it is a small room with bad acoustics and the drummer isn't the quietest in the world (though he is trying) so we have amps as low as we can.

Yesterday we ended up with the PA speakers off the poles on chairs pointing up at the singer which helped things somewhat. 

He has got an electric kit, but I think that will be a hard sell as it doesn't match the feel of a real kit so it makes rehearsal not representative of a gig.

I'd be quite happy to have all the vox, bass and guitars solely coming through headphones and have the drums as the only live things in the room.

ICBM

My old band tried both an electric kit (a decent one, Roland something or other) and the Flats, and the Flats were miles better - the drummer simply didn't like the feel of the electric ones and the dynamic was very flat and uninspiring even for the rest of us. The Flats just sound like smaller, more middy real drums. Cymbals are still an issue though…

We tried the headphone idea for practising in a flat with the electric kit, but it never worked well - I don't know if it was just because they were all wired headphones, but there was a real feeling of being tied down and it was hard to get any energy up. Setting up the desk, preamps, headphone amp, splitter and all the cables was quite a faff too, and with only one mix no-one was happy. It's not at all like standing near your own amp and being able to move about a bit to change what you hear. Nothing at all like a gig either, unless you use IEMs for that. Much better just to play more quietly in a real room.

I must admit I hated the entire concept and nothing would make me go down that route again.

monquixote

ICBM said:

My old band tried both an electric kit (a decent one, Roland something or other) and the Flats, and the Flats were miles better - the drummer simply didn't like the feel of the electric ones and the dynamic was very flat and uninspiring even for the rest of us. The Flats just sound like smaller, more middy real drums. Cymbals are still an issue though…

We tried the headphone idea for practising in a flat with the electric kit, but it never worked well - I don't know if it was just because they were all wired headphones, but there was a real feeling of being tied down and it was hard to get any energy up. Setting up the desk, preamps, headphone amp, splitter and all the cables was quite a faff too, and with only one mix no-one was happy. It's not at all like standing near your own amp and being able to move about a bit to change what you hear. Nothing at all like a gig either, unless you use IEMs for that. Much better just to play more quietly in a real room.

I must admit I hated the entire concept and nothing would make me go down that route again.

Yes that's the concern, I've never used IEMs live. 

We need to buy either the IEMs or Monitors for gigging anyway as we have no gig monitoring solution so which ever one we choose will be the gig solution.

I think the Flats would be a hard sell to the drummer from a money and space perspective.

EricTheWeary

From a space perspective the Flats aren't much of a problem! Indeed, if he has to bring an entire kit to rehearsal then Flats would be a much easier proposition.

They get used a lot by school bands as they help keep the overall volume down.Or he could buy dampening thingies for his drums* which are relatvely cheap and cut volume down a fair bit, although feel and tone suffer. On the other hand if you can't play through your amp... 


* like little round rubber mats for on the skins

ICBM

monquixote said:

I think the Flats would be a hard sell to the drummer from a money and space perspective.

He could sell the electric kit. That's what my drummer did after she realised how much better the Flats were - got more for the kit than the Flats cost too, if I remember right. And they do pack up really small.

I really can't recommend the Flats highly enough. They probably won't satisfy a big-hitting drummer who likes a full-sounding rock kit (much in the same way a little 15W amp won't satisfy those guitarists who like a 100W amp... cough ), but for everything else they're fine. They really are good for a non-full-band gig situation too - we used them for acoustic-ish gigs to keep the level down.

EricTheWeary said:

Or he could buy dampening thingies for his drums* which are relatvely cheap and cut volume down a fair bit, although feel and tone suffer.

* like little round rubber mats for on the skins

I made some for my kids' drum kit from Ikea table mats . (The coloured round foam plastic ones.)

monquixote

I had a Flats kit when I was drumming so I'm familiar with them, but I can't spend someone else's money and he needs the electronic drums for other reasons so that solution is going to be a non starter.

monquixote

EricTheWeary said:

From a space perspective the Flats aren't much of a problem! Indeed, if he has to bring an entire kit to rehearsal then Flats would be a much easier proposition.

I mean more that he would have more stuff to keep at his house which would get him in trouble with his wife.

EricTheWeary

monquixote said:

EricTheWeary said:

From a space perspective the Flats aren't much of a problem! Indeed, if he has to bring an entire kit to rehearsal then Flats would be a much easier proposition.

I mean more that he would have more stuff to keep at his house which would get him in trouble with his wife.

I am familiar with that concept.

If he has an electronic drum kit then it might be relatively easy to bring to rehearsal depending upon which one it is. It would be a compromise but then that's in the nature of these things. Maybe plan in a Soundcheck Rehearsal prior to your first full gig where you find a bigger room and set up as if you were doing a gig and sort out any level or other issues that haven't been picked up.

I have done a couple of rehearsals in someone's kitchen. Okay, biggish kitchen but electronic drum kit, practice amps and vocals through another practice amp. It wasn't rehearsal as in simulating a gig but for working out arrangements absolutely fine and never far from a cup of tea.    

ESBlonde

Nick, if space in cars is already a concern and you have no monitors at present it is the ideal time for a one off investment in the IEMs and a digital desk.

Apart from the weight/space benefits the consistent IEM mix irrespective of the room/gig means that they are the modern solution. As far as cost, you will pay as much or more for a comparable wedges solution, anything cheaper will be a feedback nightmare.

Otherwise I agree with ICBM, just turn down and train the drummist to use lighter sticks/touch or his electric kit. No reason for the band to suffer the save his feelings and anyway you don't insist on a 100w stack at full chat for your feeling and tone do you?

mike_l

@Monquixote ; if you go down the pedal into board route, and need/want to try any of my gear, drop me a line.

 

Also is there any way you could run a cab/second cab from your amp* and use that as a make-shift monitor (even temporarily). 

 

*I know my DSL has a line-out for DI-ing and also has an extra out for a second cab, not sure about your amp.

Danny1969

ESBlonde said:

Nick, if space in cars is already a concern and you have no monitors at present it is the ideal time for a one off investment in the IEMs and a digital desk.

Apart from the weight/space benefits the consistent IEM mix irrespective of the room/gig means that they are the modern solution. As far as cost, you will pay as much or more for a comparable wedges solution, anything cheaper will be a feedback nightmare.

Otherwise I agree with ICBM, just turn down and train the drummist to use lighter sticks/touch or his electric kit. No reason for the band to suffer the save his feelings and anyway you don't insist on a 100w stack at full chat for your feeling and tone do you?

Spot on advice in my opinion 

Have you got an iPad ? check out the little Mackie DL1608 . You can mix remotely from an iPad and set your own IEM mix from your iPhone

I use a Presonus Studiolive 16:4:2 as well with one of my bands, same deal as above. Wedge monitors are a waste of time these days, a little digital desk and some IEM's are a much better investment. 

monquixote

Interesting advice. 

The latest update is that the drummer has got a good deal on a 16 channel digital desk and recording system so we're going to be using that as the center of our system. It has enough aux outs for us all to have our own monitor mixes so IEMs are a possibility. 

I'm going to try it out on Monday as I already have some Sure E4Cs.  

johnnyurq

At one time when bereft of a decent rehearsal space we considered this. Not sure how good they would be in practice.

http://jamhub.com/what/index.html

http://www.dv247.com/studio-equipment/jamhub-bedroom--70525

Kebabkid

@monquixote ; - A similar concept to the jamhub and just about to be released by Roland - HS-5 Session Mixer

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULjTz_91z8A

monquixote

The drummer ended up getting a really fancy mixer so we are doing headphone monitoring via some little Behringer headphone mixer boxes. 

Happy to go into more detail if anyone is pondering a similar solution.