Tuning a guitar

viz

Please see the link for Paul Guy's recommended method for tuning a guitar, and an explanation of why one of the most common methods, the 5th/7th fret harmonics method, puts your guitar out of tune. Scroll down to the last chapter, "tuning methods evaluated". http://www.truetemperament.com/site/index.php?go=4&sgo=0

stickyfiddle

I already do a variation on the first recommended method, and it works very well. 

I get the A string to where I'm happy with it, then:

Low E: 5th fret harmonic against 7th fret harmonic of A

7th fret harmonic against 5th fret harmonic of A

G: 2nd fret of G against 12th fret harmonic of A

B: 5th fret against 7th fret harmonic of A

High E: open string against 7th fret harmonic

This way avoids compounding your errors across the strings when you're tuning by ear.

viz

Nice referencing everything to A, but with those first two 5/7 harmonics according to Paul Guy would you not be getting out-of tune opens?

stickyfiddle

I don't find they're grossly wrong.  Maybe it tempers the tuning slightly towards the key of A, but it works for me for home noodling. Always use a tuner for live and recording.

viz

True, 2 cents isn't bad - rereading, it's the cumulative error with 5/7 tuning that causes the problems.

Phil_aka_Pip

It took me a while to work out why 5th/7th fret harmonics across the strings didn't work (my original thought was the idea is so brilliant it's GOT to work) ... until people who knew better than me pointed me to writings about equal temperament.

These days if I haven't got a tuner handly I'll use 5th fret - open (4th on G string).

Here's a thought. I have 3 Gibbos each of which tunes up well enough using 5th/4th - open, and 2 Yamahas neither of which particularly like it. I have a Yamaha tuner. It tunes the Gibbos up OK, and the Yamahas spot on. Are the Yamahas built with such intonation as can only be achieved with a Yamaha tuner? I don't think my ears are crap, 'cos I once set up a guitar's intonation by ear and the luthier who takes care of my guitars for me told me he wouldn't have set it up better with his electronics.

Oddly enough the chap who comes every 6 months to tune my upright piano - who used to swear at electronic tuning devices - when he first allowed me to leave the Yamaha tuner on top of the piano while he tuned it by ear he said "That's the first electronic tuner I've seen that I agree with! Not bad, is it!"

Another thought. I always reckon that the major 3rd sounds sharp in equal temperament tuning. What do others think?

HAL9000

I'm probably the odd one out here but it seems to me that people are worrying over things that don't need worrying about. I can't believe early electric guitar pioneers worried overly much about perfect temper. I've read (but don't know the truth of it) that Clapton's Blackie and just about any of Jeff Becks guitar have intonation that is all over the place - but I don't listen to them and think how bad the intonation is. Also, the website has a vested interest in pointing out any tiny discrepancy in that it is trying to sell necks. 

As a matter of interest I tend to tune the high and low Es first and then work towards the centre strings. Seems to work for me.

ICBM

I use the 5th/7th fret harmonics, but I tune the G string to the D note on the B string/3rd fret, and go up and down across the strings a few times until they all sound right, cross-checking from bottom to top using the 5th fret harmonic on the low E.

What I'd like to know about those wiggly-fret guitars is - since the scale intervals are different depending on which fret you start at - how it can possibly be more in tune across the range of keys than a straight-fret guitar...

(Answer: it can't and it isn't, no matter what they're trying to sell you.)

viz

It's not - it's tuned to a range of selected keys, to the detriment of other less useful ones. They do a few options.

viz

I think string bending would be iffy. Otherwise I think it's a good innovation. And I think the piece on tuning is in good faith imo.

[Deleted User]

I've read (but don't know the truth of it) that Clapton's Blackie and just about any of Jeff Becks guitar have intonation that is all over the place - but I don't listen to them and think how bad the intonation is.

I met Danny Ferrington (US builder) some years ago, who looked after Albert Lee's guitar when he was working with EC. He had played Blackie and reckoned the intonation on the bottom E was miles out, as the spring behind the saddle was too long to allow it to be adjusted sufficiently far back. He offered to sort it out. EC said it was fine the way it was....