Venue Issues - "Loud" drums

Jetfire

So, after the first time in about 5 years of gigging covers (and 15 years of gigging), Ive had a venue get shirty with me and refused to pay. 

Background:

THe covers band I am in is essentially rock and pop covers. FOr example, our set is:

You Got The Love
One Way Or Another

Get Lucky

Crazy Little Thing Called Love

Oops I did it again

Cry Me A River

Beat It 

We are have a professional female singer (worked as a Gaga tribute for over 10 years etc) and we are using proper decent quality PA gear (Mackies all round)

 

Travelled an hour up the road to a working mens club.  Turned up at 6pm on the dot for load in and to assess the venue. Super high ceilings, large capacity venue (500 people are least) with a decibel monitor.  Loaded in decided to make sure we fill the room, we miced up our drum kit and DIéd very thing else.  We were told by the venue that the decibel monitor would set off a light if we went over the sound threshold (which apparently is 80 db) and we'd get a bollocking. Sound check is all sorted and a few early punters say they its too loud. Bare in mind, we are the act that is on before and after the bingo.  Yes,  the bingo.  Check with venue owner that we they are happy with the sound levels and that we have not triggered the light at all. He says everything is fine and that it'll be good.

Show time comes. Our set ist is mainly stuff from 1980s onwards with our earliest track being The Kinks You Really Got Me.  Im already thinking at this point its the wrong band for the wrong venue. Sadly, this is what happens when a booking agent is involved. So, first set starts and about 5/6 songs in, they ask us to turn the drums down (Venue representative).  We do so straight away. Another 3/4 songs in and another request so we do the same again.  We cut a song out of the set and finish the first set early because we are abit concerned that we are the wrong band for the venue so we just rush through our last song and go from there. During the bingo, our drummer and bassis go out front to mingle and see if anyone is going to Boo at him as what happened when we did our band introductions.  They both speak to the rep AND club secretary and we agree to turn things down.  We decide if they arent happy with the drums, we shall cut them completly out of the mix FOH and monitors so its purely acousticly.

Second set starts and we start with Get Lucky (Daft Punk).  The venue rep stands up half way through the song walks in front of the stage waving both his hands telling us to stop and "forget it boys".  Essentially,they have canned us.  Drummer is furious but wants to find out what the story is so we walk over to discuss it and the rep says "Drums are too loud, do you need those mics? etc etc" But essentially, we've been told to stop. We start to pack up as he's put the house lights on and put his DJset back on (the same 4 tracks over and over) so we duly pack down and put stuff away. Our singer then goes and asks about payment to which we get the reply "We're not paying you.." Oh realllllllly asshole?  So, this goes on for about 3 hours of back and forth trying to sort it out.  As the club secretary is there, we have to deal with this guy and this rep and they have to talk between each other to sort things out. So, first off, its no payment at all as we were too loud.  Ishould mention at this point that in the dressing room it says that if you are too loud and set off the decibel monitor, you will be asked to stop, paid off and told to leave. So, after much arguing, the club sec says that theyll pay £200 of it and we have to discuss it with our agent to get the rest back. We disargee with this so after another HOUR, they say they'll pay us £175 as we should have taken the deal in the first place. So we decide as all our gear is in the cars and we are good to go, we'll stay until we get paid what we are owed and is in the contract. The agent who booked us agreed that the venue should pay us our fee of £300 and he would waive his cut (£50 which would have meant we got £350), so we could get paid and go. Our big argument was that we started our second set and they stopped us, they should pay our full fee.  F they'd said after the first set to go home, we'd have be happy with that as we;d have been home much earlier. THe bingo took an hour ffs...

So, to wrap this up, the club steward made an appearance at 1230am (baring in mind we'd been there since 6pm) and was just listening.  At this point, I was point out that  we'd set up, played and never set of this warning light as he'd warned us. Ipointed out the message in the changing room and the club steward said " Id like to see this sign " as he was properly shocked and I dont think he realised  it was up,  We got the sign in from the room and showed him.  30 seconds later, £300 appeared and we were on our way.

We did everything in our power to turn the drums down and there was nothing ele to be done... comments welcome on this one!

Jetfire

Also, im typing this from my tablet so sorry if the formatting is all to cock and goes abit ranty...

p90fool

They sound like a right bunch of cocks, though I have to say I wouldn't dream of mic'ing a drumkit at a bingo gig.

stickyfiddle

Sound like they booked entirely the wrong band. Not your fault at all if it was through an agent. Tbh sounds like they didn't actually want a band at all.

monquixote

It's horrible when stuff like that happen. 

I've done a few parties in small rooms where people are saying "But people can't talk to each other" and you just think whatever I do people aren't going to be happy.

ICBM

Make sure you let as many musicians in your area as you can know not to ever play there. It's not the volume limitation, it's the attitude that's the problem.

Not your fault they booked the wrong type of band, it sounds like you did everything you could to comply with what they wanted, and the "should have taken the deal in the first place" line is completely out of order. They pay what they're contracted to if *you* haven't broken the terms.

Jetfire

Re: the micing up thing. As the hall was sooo big, we wanted a decent spread and was less for volume. We turned them all off and even acoustically it was too loud. We couldnt win..

stickyfiddle

Agree with OP on micing- it's not about volume, it's about balance and control of the sound. Trouble is, laymen don't know that and assume microphones are just there to make everything as loud as possible.

koneguitarist

Been there done that!!!!

Played Yeovil Conservative club years, with a drum machine, as a 4pc band. 

We could play very quietly , after the 4th time of asking us to turn down, which we did each time, we unplugged the acoustic guitar, singer put mic down and we played another song where we were told we still too loud!

No point carrying on, just get paid and walk away. 

KickTheHabit

It's a Clubland thing...

We have kicked the WMC's into touch nowadays as they are often so much more hassle and tbh they are often big rooms with very few people in them...

That and playing second fiddel to the Bingo and the odd meat raffle... please...

leerocker

fuck that aint even worth doing gigs if you get places like that

koneguitarist

It's why I stopped doing them years ago.

maltingsaudio

It is possible to play drums quietly ..... warning sign was agent waived his fee.......you eventually got what you wanted so result close the page and move on

Jetfire

Yeah, only after four hours of arguing lol

Danny1969

I still play WMC's but I've had all kinds of crap over the years, Been fined for going on stage 5 mins late. Told off for talking during national anthem, told to stop playing completely at one club in Midhurst as they booked an organist and our agent mistakenly sent us. 

Don't fret on it, it happens. Luckily for one crap experience there's generally a hundred good ones. 

Jetfire

Our singer has done working mens clubs for years and shes said theres always something up. Come back grotty pubs, all is forgiven!

 

RocknRollDave

stickyfiddle said:

Agree with OP on micing- it's not about volume, it's about balance and control of the sound. Trouble is, laymen don't know that and assume microphones are just there to make everything as loud as possible.

Agree with this 100% and also with @Jetfire's comments on this too.

Both me and our drummer believe that the drums should always be mic'ed up - for the reasons @stickyfiddle sums up perfectly above. Many's the time our singer and/ or bassist have asked the questions "Are we gonna bother mic'ing the drums tonight?" when they feel the smaller size of a venue negates the need for it..but for me it should never even be an option not to.

HOWEVER...and it is a big however... When there's a sound limiter ALL BETS ARE OFF.

My personal belief is that if a venue has a sound limiter, they should not have live music at all - wedding venues in particular ought to be very clear with their clients in such instances that a live band is not an option, yet instead they are happy to take the big bucks for the wedding parties and still expect us to be able to do our job properly.


We have to suck it up and compromise as best we can - no drum mic's, no mic for the guitars, everything turned as low as possible and drums tickled rather than played. Makes for a very unsatisfying playing experience, makes for a very subdued dancefloor, an anticlimactic night for the punters and a general sense of "Really...why bother?"  And even with all those provisos...the sound limiter will STILL be tripped several times during the night...it's just impossible not to set the things off! The audience clapping at one gig set it off, FFS!

With wedding venues, it's just tough luck - if we get there and there's a limiter, it is what it is. Can't expect the couple to postpone and use another venue at a later date!
On the club circuit, however, it's different as someone's big day doesn't depend on it. They should know better, and if you can't do your job, it's their fault and they ought to compensate you for wasting your time.

RocknRollDave

Or to put it another way: would they expect their cook to be able to turn out a decent spread of sausage rolls and vol-au-vents for Harry's wake on Tuesday if the oven in the kitchen was restricted to 30'c?!

ICBM

RocknRollDave said:

We have to suck it up and compromise as best we can - no drum mic's, no mic for the guitars, everything turned as low as possible and drums tickled rather than played. Makes for a very unsatisfying playing experience, makes for a very subdued dancefloor, an anticlimactic night for the punters and a general sense of "Really...why bother?"  And even with all those provisos...the sound limiter will STILL be tripped several times during the night...it's just impossible not to set the things off! The audience clapping at one gig set it off, FFS!

I've had the same sort of experiences even playing acoustic gigs. Once we were in a place with a limiter over the stage, and just for a laugh at the set-up I strummed my unplugged Lowden acoustic as hard as I could to see how "Lowd" it was. I stopped laughing when all three red lights came on…

Also got paid off early once when we had turned the PA off and were just playing with two acoustic guitars and a rather polite singer. Still too loud. WTF?

koneguitarist

I never mic the drums unless we absolutely need to, and there is rarely a need to mic it in 95% of the venues we play.

Best thing is learn how to control your sound by tuning kit properly and mixing back line to suit, then bring vocals above that. Do bands need to play so loud the audience moves away when they start? 

I don't think so. Every one of my YouTube vids is just a pair of 10's for vocals and acoustic. 

Even the outdoor ones, not once have we been told to turn up, down yes, but never up. 

p90fool

I honestly think that drum mics are silly and conceited at some gigs. We played one of those horrible, boomy village halls last weekend using an unmiked Flats kit and it was still deafening and tiring for the band.

It went down well and everyone assured us it sounded fine, but the idea of miking the kit for "spread and balance" (ie, trying to crush the reverb with sheer volume) would've got us paid off and thrown out, and rightly so.

I'm sorry, but fully miking a drum kit for a bingo gig is not just ego, it's pure Spinal Tap.