Returning non-faulty item/Restocking Fees

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Arktik83Arktik83 Frets: 431
So I bought a Blackstar ID 15 and whilst I'm sure it's a brilliant amp it's far too loud for my needs!  So I popped the music store an email the day after it arrived saying I'd like to swap it for a THR10C which is £67 more than the Blackstar.  I was happy to pay the diff. of course but then they said there was a £20 delivery charge to swap the items over. 

I said I felt that was steep and arranged my own collection via UPS/Interparcel and for insured delivery it cost me £15.  Now I work for a courier company and I don't work in the ops side, I work in invoicing so I know what kind of rates regular shippers get and for a music store this large you're talking about £6 per delivery/collection.

Am I being unreasonable in thinking a £20 "delivery charge" is excessive and it feels more like a restocking fee?  Which they don't advertise on their website.
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Comments

  • IamnobodyIamnobody Frets: 6887
    edited June 2014
    So they wanted to charge you twenty, you paid fifteen but you think they should have charged twelve?

    So what. A couple of quid here and there and you have had the luxury of trying something that they will probably have to sell as ex-demo and take a hit on.

    Move on.
    Previously known as stevebrum
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  • Arktik83Arktik83 Frets: 431
    Iamnobody said:
    So they wanted to charge you twenty, you paid fifteen but you think they should have charged twelve?

    So what. A couple of quid here and there and you have had the luxury of trying something that they will probably have to sell as ex-demo and take a hit on.

    Move on.
    Wow OK, didn't realise I was being that unreasonable...Thanks for pointing that out!
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  • You buy it online? You can just return it for a full refund it's the law.
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  • imaloneimalone Frets: 748
    You buy it online? You can just return it for a full refund it's the law.
    Yes, within a certain time frame, but unless there was something wrong with it you have to pay the shipping charges, hence thread.
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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    edited June 2014
    Wow - you have just reminded me of something. The Law changes on Friday this week.
    :-O (Distance selling  regs)
    It was on BBC Radio 4 Money Box yesterday.
    From memory......you can examine the item but you cannot use it. If you use it the shop will point out that it is now used and knock something off the refund amount.
    I can't check iplayer right now but will have a look later if nobody knows anything about this. Or have we had a thread already??

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  • Arktik83Arktik83 Frets: 431
    Skipped said:
    Wow - you have just reminded me of something. The Law changes on Friday this week.
    :-O (Distance selling  regs)
    It was on BBC Radio 4 Money Box yesterday.
    From memory......you can examine the item but you cannot use it. If you use it the shop will point out that it is now used and knock something off the refund amount.
    I can't check iplayer right now but will have a look later if nobody knows anything about this. Or have we had a thread already??
    Not sure if this is the reason I was charged £20 but just checking their website and it does say a delivery charge but does not mention "Re-stocking fee" if like Stevebrum says, they are obliged to list this as "ex-demo" then why say re-stocking fee, some websites do and I'm fine with that, I didn't mean to come across as some tight arse but delivery cost can, for a company that ships many items on a daily basis be considerably cheaper. 

    Just felt a little gipped is all!
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 11813
    edited June 2014
    Is this Andertons?

    If its within 7 days then they are legally obliged to just return and refund to you, 100%.  

    After that buy the other amp that you want. 
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  • IamnobodyIamnobody Frets: 6887
    Arktik83;261630" said:
    Iamnobody said:

    So they wanted to charge you twenty, you paid fifteen but you think they should have charged twelve?



    So what. A couple of quid here and there and you have had the luxury of trying something that they will probably have to sell as ex-demo and take a hit on.



    Move on.





    Wow OK, didn't realise I was being that unreasonable...Thanks for pointing that out!
    No, my apologies; my earlier response is a bit harsh.

    I guess my thoughts are still the same but dress it up with a smiley or two and overall less surly approach!

    I don't think legally they can charge a restocking fee.

    However they might absorb some of the shipping cost on a sale and in their T&C's returns/exchanges are at actual cost.

    There's new regs coming in soon about all this. Here's a link:

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

    I hope this post is more constructive than my last!
    Previously known as stevebrum
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  • Arktik83Arktik83 Frets: 431
    Iamnobody said:
    Arktik83;261630" said:
    Iamnobody said:

    So they wanted to charge you twenty, you paid fifteen but you think they should have charged twelve?



    So what. A couple of quid here and there and you have had the luxury of trying something that they will probably have to sell as ex-demo and take a hit on.



    Move on.





    Wow OK, didn't realise I was being that unreasonable...Thanks for pointing that out!
    No, my apologies; my earlier response is a bit harsh.

    I guess my thoughts are still the same but dress it up with a smiley or two and overall less surly approach!

    I don't think legally they can charge a restocking fee.

    However they might absorb some of the shipping cost on a sale and in their T&C's returns/exchanges are at actual cost.

    There's new regs coming in soon about all this. Here's a link:

    http://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/regulation/consumer-contracts-regulations

    I hope this post is more constructive than my last!
    It's Cool!  Just didn't know if I was being a complete ignoramus because I do work for a courier firm I was assuming they'd just pay a delivery fee you know, I can see where it can leave them in the lurch with regards to exchanges but I was paying £67 more than the item I was sending back so to pay another £20 felt a little bit harsh.

    Would they be obliged to sell it as ex-demo then?  I guess so.
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  • SkippedSkipped Frets: 2371
    edited June 2014
    I presume the link from Iamnobody covers most of this from BBC Money Box:

    It is a European directive. ( would include Thomann then) From next Friday.
    Viewing the item means you can do whatever you would do if you were in a shop. You can examine the goods but you cannot use the goods. That is a change from the current law.
    The current law says you must take reasonable care of the item.
    If there is any change in the condition of the item the trader will make a deduction.

    From 14.20 if you are interested.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045xntk

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    edited June 2014
    That's interesting if they're changing DSRs.

    If you can do what you can do in a shop... like most of these laws it's kind of a grey area. I mean, I can try a guitar in a shop. I presume that means I can try a guitar at home as well?

    EDIT: In that radio program the Trading Standards Institute person's surname is "Rook". :))

    Thanks for the link and pointing out the exact part of the program to check. :)
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  • EdGripEdGrip Frets: 736
    This reminds me a little of a friend of mine who used to sell vintage camera gear on Ebay. Occasionally she would have someone write her a snarky message about what they felt were excessive postage costs for the camera that they hadn't even bid on. "Do you think I don't know what First Class postage costs?" they would say. She would patiently explain that to post the camera would mean her finding a good box and taking the time to package it safely, and then either making the 12 mile round trip to the Post Office or sitting at home for half a day, or a day, waiting for the courier to turn up. 
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  • BogwhoppitBogwhoppit Frets: 2754

    To negate any loss, I wonder how many retailers will claim an item as been handled more than necessary ?

     


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  • Currently the law is retailer cant charge you anything. You have to pay to return it but that's that. Anything else would be a disguised restocking fee which is illegal. They also have to refund the original postage charges if you paid any etc.
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  • JohnPerryJohnPerry Frets: 1616

    To negate any loss, I wonder how many retailers will claim an item as been handled more than necessary ?

     


    quite a few i would imagine. The wording of that seems woolly to me. Also, you are allowed to "assess the goods as much as you would in a shop". But that varies from item to item. With some it's more than a physical examination. With an fx pedal you'd want to hear it, probably, rather than just examine it. Same with an amp, obviously. Not like if you're buying a kettle. I can see myriad disputes with retailers

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    EdGrip said:
    This reminds me a little of a friend of mine who used to sell vintage camera gear on Ebay. Occasionally she would have someone write her a snarky message about what they felt were excessive postage costs for the camera that they hadn't even bid on. "Do you think I don't know what First Class postage costs?" they would say. She would patiently explain that to post the camera would mean her finding a good box and taking the time to package it safely, and then either making the 12 mile round trip to the Post Office or sitting at home for half a day, or a day, waiting for the courier to turn up. 
    She was wasting her time. The best response is to ignore the question and put them on the Blocked Bidder list, since it's this type that cause trouble if they do go through with it.

    But I don't sell on Ebay any more.

    The automatic right to return, with all costs borne by the seller, can be a crippling liability to a small seller (private or retail). Buyers who expect to be able to do this for no good reason irrespective of the costs to the seller *are* being unreasonable, in my opinion. Faulty or misdescribed goods is one thing, simply changing your mind about something is totally different.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • impmannimpmann Frets: 12649
    edited June 2014
    To be fair, there are lots of arseholes in this world who take stuff like this to the extreme - I seem to remember someone once bragging that he ordered a guitar from Thomann, gigged it, said he didn't like it and sent it back for a refund. The guitar would not be in perfect, unmarked condition so they get lumbered with a cost... An extreme example but professionally, I can tell you lesser examples happens all too often and the retailer ends up out of pocket. You may think 'so what' here... but those costs are then passed onto you later on (a few quid extra here and there added to strings etc) or the dealer goes bust or the regulations become unworkable so this gets overturned and so we *all* lose out on this protection.

    A restocking fee? You might want to check the legal position but if you are outside of the DSR limits, then I don't believe the store has any obligation to accept a non-faulty return, so in fact they are doing you a favour.
    Never Ever Bloody Anything Ever.

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  • spacecadetspacecadet Frets: 671

    Skipped said:
    I presume the link from Iamnobody covers most of this from BBC Money Box:

    It is a European directive. ( would include Thomann then) From next Friday.
    Viewing the item means you can do whatever you would do if you were in a shop. You can examine the goods but you cannot use the goods. That is a change from the current law.
    The current law says you must take reasonable care of the item.
    If there is any change in the condition of the item the trader will make a deduction.

    From 14.20 if you are interested.
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b045xntk
    This could be the change that is needed to save the music retail industry. Following MI Pro and seeing retailers going bust every other day due to online, it's about time something changed. I don't think it would happen overnight but as soon as someone understands they can't take the piss like before, there will be customers back in shops. You know, like the good old days!
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  • Danny1969Danny1969 Frets: 10357

    Trouble is when someone sends it back you really have to look at it. Have they taken it apart and swapped internal bits over ?  does it still work ? is it now cosmetically damaged ? And then you gotta sell it as used ... cos it is

    Restock fee is fine with me
    www.2020studios.co.uk 
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  • RaymondLinRaymondLin Frets: 11813
    The intent and purpose of the DSR is to act like if you are buying the product in person, at home.  So if you are buying something like a candle then you can't light it and send it back.  If you are buying electrical items you can open the box and see that it works, perhaps take a few shots in the store and either say "yeah, I'll take one" or you don't, and that's why they have display models too so you don't need to open a new one (but if you are at home then you are not going to send it back and ask for another new one after testing that one out.) But people often stretch this law a bit too far, they go from inspection to full on use, buy a pair of shoes and go to a wedding and then send it back.  They would wear a suit for an interview and send it back, it is very difficult for a retailer to argue the condition of the product before and after unless they photograph every single item that leaves the store.
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