les paul junior, model identity help please

Trotter

Hi all, 

visited a local pawn shop today and they have a rather lovely looking double cut Les paul junior for sale.

I'm desperately trying to work out the exact model but not having any joy on serial number identification sites. 

It has a wraparound tailpiece only and doesn't look to have had any changes to remove a bridge, single p90. No made in the usa on the back of the headstock and a 5 digit serial that's inked on which reads 0 XXXX

Also looks like the Gibson & Les Paul Scripts are printed on as they are both fairly opaque (read nearly non existent for the Les paul sig) due to polishing I would guess. 

the shop believe it to be a 1990 58 re issue junior but 'm not sure that's correct. It's certainly not a real 50's one though. 

I'm guessing maybe an historic model? 

any help identifying  this little beasty would be appreciated.  

thanks all

Mark 

Trotter

should mention that it definitely feels and looks like a 90's gibson if that makes sense? I have a few and the finish, neck profile etc etc all points me to believing that it is a 90's guitar. could be wrong though. 

GuitarMonkey

The "0" denotes 1960 Reissue. The first digit of the block of 4 gives the year of the 90s.

Trotter

I thought the same. That would make it a 99. it's not a normal run "standard model" though surely? Based on the "vintage correct" tailpiece, lack of made in the USA on the headstock etc, holly veneer (or similar) script on the face of the headstock? 

Skipped

Yeah - I think that is right. The first number indicates model type/year and the first of the four digits indicates manufacture year, ie 9 would be 1999 or 2009.  Here is a '57 (Korina) Junior re-issue made in 2009.

fretfinder

Historic or pre-Historic maybe. Is the neck slim or fat?

jd0272

Think the historic kicked in in earnest in '94? It'll be a '60 reissue.

Trotter

fretfinder said:

Is the neck slim or fat?

medium profile but narrow at the first fret, more 60's than 50's certainly.

Trotter

Skipped said:

Yeah - I think that is right. The first number indicates model type/year and the first of the four digits indicates manufacture year, ie 1999 or 2009.  Here is a '57 (Korina) Junior re-issue made in 2009.

yep exactly like this, thank you  

Trotter

actually the serial would now date it as a 90 thinking about it... hmm.. 

GuitarMonkey

What is the serial number? 

Did you take any pics?

And this ⇩⇩⇩⇩

ICBM

How much was it?

Neil

Skipped said:

Yeah - I think that is right. The first number indicates model type/year and the first of the four digits indicates manufacture year, ie 9 would be 1999 or 2009.  Here is a '57 (Korina) Junior re-issue made in 2009.

I'd like to see the front of that one. 

*Edit* Just found it. Sorry thought it was yours.

Trotter

@icbm quite a whack over a grand, hence wanting to find out the exact model before going further.

ICBM

Trotter said:

@icbm quite a whack over a grand, hence wanting to find out the exact model before going further.

That's top money for one even if it's exactly what it seems to be and in great condition.

A friend of mine is selling a '98 pre-Historic double-cut Jr. in cherry, if you're interested - I think he'd take a bit less than that.

Skipped

I am not sure why you have concluded 1990 so I am a bit confused.
If the guitar was made in 1990 it is a Pre-Historic and the serial number "rules" that we are discussing here are not the same!!!

For example.....my '60 Reissue Pre-Historic Les Paul standard was made in 1986 and the serial is 6 XXXX.

Maybe you need pics because if this has a serial 0 0XXX i think it needs confirming as a  2000 manufacture year Historic before you hand over £1000+ Can you recall exactly what is stencilled on the case? The guitar could be a replica.

ThePrettyDamned

ICBM;263306" said:

Trotter said:

@icbm quite a whack over a grand, hence wanting to find out the exact model before going further.





That's top money for one even if it's exactly what it seems to be and in great condition.

A friend of mine is selling a '98 pre-Historic double-cut Jr. in cherry, if you're interested - I think he'd take a bit less than that.

Prehistoric? Bloody hell, that's an old guitar...

(sorry, goes through my head everytime I read that!)

GuitarMonkey

ICBM said:

A friend of mine is selling a '98 pre-Historic double-cut Jr. in cherry, if you're interested - I think he'd take a bit less than that.

Surely '98 is a Historic as the Historic division started in '93?

ICBM

GuitarMonkey said:

ICBM said:

A friend of mine is selling a '98 pre-Historic double-cut Jr. in cherry, if you're interested - I think he'd take a bit less than that.

Surely '98 is a Historic as the Historic division started in '93?

Might be, I don't know. That's what he said! I never bothered to check - presumably it's a Historic then. Whatever it is, it's a double-cut '58-style LP Jr reissue and it's quite nice .

GuitarMonkey

I have a '92 Custom Shop Junior but it has the normal for the time 8 digit serial number and "made in usa" stamped on the headstock (plus a custom shop decal).

I don't think the Juniors were ever part of the pre-Historic reissue program as such.

jd0272

Right, Pre-Historic's were 1993. That's when G were giving it some thought about Historics. Before that year, they're either Special Dealer ordered runs, limited G runs, or just v nice guitars. The yap yap that goes on is whether 'Pre-Historic's" were simply 'glammed up' Classics etc. Which they weren't.

 My 1993 'Pre-Historic' is categorised as an R6, which in that period denoted a 1960 Reissue, not the 1956 GT or BB. It is ink stamped R6 in one of the pickup cavities. Has a lurverly figured top and a slim profile neck. Short tenon, which they addressed when they went all 'Historic'. Certificates for Historic's weren't issued until 2000 or thereabouts I believe. I'm happy to be wrong. Custom Shop was 1994 in its conception IIRC?

The guitar in question is more than likely, if the serial is 0 0XXX etc a 2000 1960 Reissue. If it's 1990, then it ain't a Custom Shop, as it didn't exist, or it's a special run. Which I doubt. Dealer's asking too much if it's way North of a grand IMO. I'm aware there are grammatical errors present, but I can't be arsed