2x10 amp Mic'ing

preston61

OK people of this most helpful forum, I have a question.

I love the sound of the 2x10 Maz combo I have, sound nice and full when I play it home and when I stand in front of it.

However, I have a regular spot every 4 weeks at a venue that use in ears and put amps back stage. Sadly the amp sounds a bit flat when it's mic'd up, I am mic'ing up the right hand speaker only, so was wondering if any of you good people had any suggestions as to how I might be able to get that fullness back (please bare in mind that the amp has to stay back stage.)

Thanks in advance

mikenewell

In my experience, your sound will only be as good as the mic you put in front of it, what mic are you using?

preston61

Standard SM57

midiglitch

I would suggest adding some reverb at the desk on your monitor feed of guitar to the in ears. I have found that mic'd guitar in in-ears sounds so much dryer than you are used to hearing that it can be quite disconcerting.

In eq terms all I can advise is to eq the amp while listening on the in ears rather than before putting them in (if you are not already doing that. ..)

Handsome_Chris

@preston61, are you tried the basic guidelines of micing up a cab.

1. Place the mic in line with the centre of the speaker, nearly touching the cloth (so to speak). http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/elastitude/Guitar stuff/Guitarstartoffposition_zps5da7cbf9.jpg
2. Move it towards the edge to roll off the treble. http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/elastitude/Guitar stuff/Guitarrolloffthetreble_zps20ff8229.jpg
3. Back it away from the speaker to ease off the bass. http://i903.photobucket.com/albums/ac233/elastitude/Guitar stuff/GuitarBackoffBass_zps6ad505c5.jpg

Please pardon me if the pics are a bit mad.

As @midiglitch said above the desk is quite important. One guy was saying that he liked to add compression after the mic to help sort out his guitar sound. 

Most important thing, experiment until you're happy.

I hope that this helps you.

moz91

I've had similar issues...

Most importantly, make sure you're using good quality drivers in your ears. I know this sounds obvious, but I went from using the standard DB Tech ones that came with my monitor system (MEI1000) to some Shure drivers (forget the exact model, cost about £100), and the difference was remarkable!

At first I found to get the right sound for my IEM's, id have to butcher what was going out front; obviously counter-productive. I found adding some low mids (around 250-450hz) fattened out the sound in my ears and it 'felt' better, but obviously sounded rather muddy FOH. Scrap that idea!
I have started dialling in the tone on my amp with my IEM's in, which made a little difference. For me personally, I found reverb to be the cure! Depending on the desk you're using, try sending more reverb to your IEM mix only, the difference is surprising! Like someone else pointed out, the sound of your guitar in your ears is so much dryer than you're used to and can be really off-putting!

Just my two penneth anyway, hope this helps!

ICBM

An unusual trick to try, if you haven't come across it - try micing the back of the speaker cone, inside the cab. I know you very rarely see this done! Although one reason for that is that you can't see it . But actually it works very well, and it will increase bottom end and 'thickness' compared to micing the front.

I used to mic my Fender Super Champ like that, with an SM57 in a lecturn clip on the top edge of the lower back panel. Much bigger-sounding than the rather focused sound from in front - I first did it to save space on a small stage with a 6-piece band, but it worked so well I stuck to it.

digitalscream

ICBM said:

An unusual trick to try, if you haven't come across it - try micing the back of the speaker cone, inside the cab. I know you very rarely see this done! Although one reason for that is that you can't see it . But actually it works very well, and it will increase bottom end and 'thickness' compared to micing the front.

I used to mic my Fender Super Champ like that, with an SM57 in a lecturn clip on the top edge of the lower back panel. Much bigger-sounding than the rather focused sound from in front - I first did it to save space on a small stage with a 6-piece band, but it worked so well I stuck to it.

I do this when recording, but usually only in conjunction with front-mics (condenser on the dust cap, side-address dynamic half way between the dust cap and the cone edge). Between the three you can get pretty much any sound you like without resorting to too much EQ adjustment, assuming you've got the phase right

Danny1969

What kind of desk are they running ? If it's pretty current and digital then you should be able to have your own personal EQ, set different from the FOH EQ for your aux sends running your IEM's and they should be able to spare 2 so you can go stereo. Running your IEM's stereo with things panned sounds so much better. The icing on the cake would be a couple of ambient mic's spaced out front and then fed in subtlety in stereo in your and other guys  IEM's. 

As others have sound a basic 57 shoved against the cab will sound unnatural if piped dry in your ears. For good "ears" you need sepereate EQ, 2 sends for stereo and ambient \ crowd mics. Then it can sound pretty dam good

koneguitarist

ICBM said:

An unusual trick to try, if you haven't come across it - try micing the back of the speaker cone, inside the cab. I know you very rarely see this done! Although one reason for that is that you can't see it . But actually it works very well, and it will increase bottom end and 'thickness' compared to micing the front.

I used to mic my Fender Super Champ like that, with an SM57 in a lecturn clip on the top edge of the lower back panel. Much bigger-sounding than the rather focused sound from in front - I first did it to save space on a small stage with a 6-piece band, but it worked so well I stuck to it.

Actually that's how I always mic`d my 2x10 Holland, worked great, even though I used an SM58 in the back rather than the standard SM57, sounded better to me, not sure why.

ICBM

Doesn't the 58 have a more pronounced proximity effect? I know they're basically the same mic capsule with a different mounting, but the pop shield on the 58 does change the response and from memory that's one of the differences.

You can actually get the mic closer to the cone from the back than the front, unless the front has no grille cloth. Add the two together and you might get more thump - as well as from the generally boomier sound inside the cabinet.

I certainly noticed that my Super Champ sounded like a much bigger amp when it was mic'ed like that than conventionally.

ESBlonde

Plug in your ears and move the mic about while you listen, back of the cab does work surprisingly often but so does having the mic near the baffle between the cones and about 6" away. 

Have your ears on whilst someone moves the mic about (flat EQ first) and pick your favourite. Then just have FOH eq to taste. There are no rules except use your ears.

John_A

Try a H&K Red Box DI, they are not perfect, but IMO 90% of the time you get a better sound live than trying to mic without a soundcheck

koneguitarist

I think the red box is quite good, not sure of the price now, but after trying them side by side I bought the Peavey EDI box, still use it most gigs, have even used it in studio with very good results.

ICBM

I have the Red Box, but I do remember the Peavey being good as well, although I didn't directly compare them. If I remember right it's a passive transformer-balanced unit - I've always preferred the sound of these over active DIs for bass, even when non-speaker-emulated, so it doesn't surprise me it should sound good.

I've recently acquired a Sequis Motherload Elemental as well, which is truly brilliant. Incredibly realistic - also passive and transformer-balanced... it draws all the power it needs from the speaker input.

preston61

Cheers for all the input guys, will try the mic behind the cab next time I play and let you know how it goes

PolarityMan

What Ive found is that while its advantageous to put the mic right on the grill for band work (reduce spill, maximum signal) the best sound is actually 4 inches or so back from the grill.

If you're playing a single guitar rather than a full bad i'd try that just moving your mic back a bit.

ESBlonde

PolarityMan said:

What Ive found is that while its advantageous to put the mic right on the grill for band work (reduce spill, maximum signal) the best sound is actually 4 inches or so back from the grill.

If you're playing a single guitar rather than a full bad i'd try that just moving your mic back a bit.

For live work I had the crew put a fist between the grill and the mic. A crew'd measure but one always to hand on a busy stage! 

:-?

Quisizyx

I would have a tendency to go with the previously mentioned mic to micked or even micking altho mic isn't the whole or complete word and the c is not the last letter of microphone.  After all panic morphs to panicky and panicking according to Merriam-Webster.  Unfortunately, the public doesn't always follow logic or precedent so whatever is popular will become the rule.  Another case of majority rules.


da dum de dum, da dum de dum, da dum de dah dah da dum de dum.

The light at the end of the tunnel is a dead end with a brightly lighted sign reading "Detour" pointing back the way you came.

preston61

Quisizyx said:

I would have a tendency to go with the previously mentioned mic to micked or even micking altho mic isn't the whole or complete word and the c is not the last letter of microphone.  After all panic morphs to panicky and panicking according to Merriam-Webster.  Unfortunately, the public doesn't always follow logic or precedent so whatever is popular will become the rule.  Another case of majority rules.


da dum de dum, da dum de dum, da dum de dah dah da dum de dum.

The light at the end of the tunnel is a dead end with a brightly lighted sign reading "Detour" pointing back the way you came.

Haha, you just joined the forum, bump a thread from 5 years ago as a first point of call, to talk about grammar, which everyone who read it understood what was being asked.

Simply put, you sound like a bit of a douche, don't stick around too long

TTony

preston61 said:

Quisizyx said:

I would have a tendency to go with the previously mentioned mic to micked or even micking altho mic isn't the whole or complete word and the c is not the last letter of microphone.  After all panic morphs to panicky and panicking according to Merriam-Webster.  Unfortunately, the public doesn't always follow logic or precedent so whatever is popular will become the rule.  Another case of majority rules.


da dum de dum, da dum de dum, da dum de dah dah da dum de dum.

The light at the end of the tunnel is a dead end with a brightly lighted sign reading "Detour" pointing back the way you came.

Haha, you just joined the forum, bump a thread from 5 years ago as a first point of call, to talk about grammar, which everyone who read it understood what was being asked.

Simply put, you sound like a bit of a douche, don't stick around too long

Some people must have very empty lives.

Gone.