Gibson Poor Excuse

57Deluxe

Do you accept that to have guitar with a nitro finish means a pay-off between optimum tonal quality and a gradually buggering finish?

My white Les Paul has suffered steady degradation to its white nitro finish from new in 2007. It simply sits on its stand (carefully insulated so the black rubber doesn't leech into finish) and is just getting worse and worse... Is un-giged and in a non smoking environ - in fact stands in my dining room! And no - I do not have dirty sweaty hands!

Would you accept this as part of the historic relic chic ethos?? The guitar sounds epic though...

http://i232.photobucket.com/albums/ee301/snotmale/Webhosting/Nitrofinishfail_zps757ff619.jpg

ESchap

Nitro cellulose when fresh, moves with the wood because it is a "soft" finish.   As it ages it gradually loses its plasticity and gets more brittle and hence lacquer checking.  Temperature and humidity variations affect the rate it checks; the bigger the variations, the faster it will check. The discolouration ie yellowing is due to oxygen reacting with some of the polymers, physics and not mnuch you can do about it other than store it in a vacuum.  You'll always notice these effects more on a white guitar.

The ageing of Nitro is radically affected by the organic acids in sweat and hence the neck and "under your arm" areas discolour and age more rapidly.  No matter how much you think you don't sweat .. at a molecular level and enough to accelerate Nitro ageing ... you do 

rossi

Nitro doesnt really ever dry .Its always in motion just imperceptibly .This also means it polishes up well even without polish .you may well be able to polish it all out a bit but do remember that people pay good money for all this .its called relicing .it you want a perfect stay new finish its poly all the way .

Neil

It's just how nitro ages and why many prefer it.

White of course is the worst colour for showing any ageing, stains etc.

Poly never ages but looks far worse when knocked or chipped. Smashed toffee apple comes to mind. 

57Deluxe

...amazing - I posted this to Gibson's FB page with pic and it was taken down almost straight away... funny that...

pmg

My J-45 has experienced some lacquer checking where fretboard and neck meet. I was concerned that the fretboard was coming away and sent it off to Gibson Europe for inspection. Their response: The “cracks” along the fret board are traces of an ultra-minor expanding fret board causing the regular nitro cracks like we see often on our guitars.

57Deluxe

/\ in which case they will be grateful of my pics so that they can show potential buyers what is 'acceptable and typical finish changes' to be expected further down the road of Gibson Guitar ownership...!!

suspiciousminds

Tbh,
I'm looking forward to my junior special finish to start wearing.

57Deluxe

pmg said:

My J-45 has experienced some lacquer checking where fretboard and neck meet. I was concerned that the fretboard was coming away and sent it off to Gibson Europe for inspection. Their response: The “cracks” along the fret board are traces of an ultra-minor expanding fret board causing the regular nitro cracks like we see often on our guitars.

post pics up then too... cheers

RaymondLin

The bar of quality for money when it comes to Gibson for me is lower than that of a Chinese knock off, this doesn't help one bit !

richardhomer

Yellowing of white finishes is pretty normal, even on poly finishes.

My Arctic White '94 American Standard Strat is distinctly cream-coloured, even though it hasn't been kept in a smokey environment.

Older Gibson finishes seem to check more finely. Newer ones seem to actually 'crack'. I presume the composition of the finish has changed. I understand from an environmental point of view, nitro is something of a problem - so the stuff being sprayed now is different from the older stuff.

I suspect the other issue is that the woods used in a modern Gibson move around a fair bit more than they did in older ones.

RaymondLin

richardhomer said:

Yellowing of white finishes is pretty normal, even on poly finishes.

My Arctic White '94 American Standard Strat is distinctly cream-coloured, even though it hasn't been kept in a smokey environment.

Older Gibson finishes seem to check more finely. Newer ones seem to actually 'crack'. I presume the composition of the finish has changed. I understand from an environmental point of view, nitro is something of a problem - so the stuff being sprayed now is different from the older stuff.

I suspect the other issue is that the woods used in a modern Gibson move around a fair bit more than they did in older ones.

Gibson used to made a point that they only used wood that is aged and been sat around for X number of years.  They don't anymore.  But the point is that if you dry it properly, like you do with acoustic guitars (VERY important) then it shouldn't move at all (if kept in the right humidity).  PRS dries all their wood and crystalises all the resin inside it and they make a big point of it.  I wonder if Gibson do the same and if not, why not.

richardhomer

RaymondLin;267189" said:

 I wonder if Gibson do the same and if not, why not.

In a word?

Cost....

rossi

My friends    well gigged white 64 P Bass  ,bought new by him and even had receipt in case is now a brown and cream with a very deep dark  honey colour  for the neck.It absorbed all the fag smoke way back when .He never polished it ,it was just a quick wipe over if still sober enough  ,which probably wasnt too often .I wish I had photographed it when I last saw it in the mid eighties .

Bogwhoppit

Gibson use modern day nitro finishes which have plasticisers to prevent degradation, hence why you have to buy older formula nitro-cellulose from suppliers like Rothko and Frost to obtain that chequered knackered look. 

So whilst I agree nitro does age and look shabby far quicker than poly, a 2007 Gibson that is cared for and looked after should still look good. My 2000 era Gibson's still look new despite being gigged.

sweepy

PRS are not Nitro finishes as standard, waiting for my Gibsons to age more they always look nicer, top tip for Nitro,,,,,,don't polish them

dindude

I for one applaud that Gibson still use nitro for all of their guitars still, it would be so much easier for them to use poly like everyone else. I much prefer the feel (and smell) of nitro.

Posting this on Gibson's facebook doesn't help IMO, just shows a lack of understanding, which is probably why they took it down. Just my opinion, don't shoot me.

MattG

my "budget" gibsons paint is yet to show any signs of ageing but i put that down to it being black and therefore harder to tell xD

monquixote

57Deluxe said:

...amazing - I posted this to Gibson's FB page with pic and it was taken down almost straight away... funny that...

And that's why we are proud to be independent

Unless you diss my haircut in which case I'll ban the shit out of you.

Neil

RaymondLin said:

Gibson used to made a point that they only used wood that is aged and been sat around for X number of years.  They don't anymore.  But the point is that if you dry it properly, like you do with acoustic guitars (VERY important) then it shouldn't move at all (if kept in the right humidity). PRS dries all their wood and crystalises all the resin inside it and .....

.....then seal it in plastic.  :-S

Sorry, you can't compare two very different finishes.

pmg

57Deluxe said:

pmg said:

My J-45 has experienced some lacquer checking where fretboard and neck meet. I was concerned that the fretboard was coming away and sent it off to Gibson Europe for inspection. Their response: The “cracks” along the fret board are traces of an ultra-minor expanding fret board causing the regular nitro cracks like we see often on our guitars.

post pics up then too... cheers

Sorry I'm confused, what are you suggesting posting pics on a gibson page to be immediately removed or post pics on here?