Gibson Poor Excuse

Lew

Wait 'till it turns custard. That's just the nature of the beast.

57Deluxe

@pmg - no here  - of your J-45 finish flaws... to compare...

and

@monquixote - hahaha - you've had a pole shave!! -  hahaha.........

monquixote

57Deluxe said:

@pmg - no here  - of your J-45 finish flaws... to compare...

and

@monquixote - hahaha - you've had a pole shave!! -  hahaha.........

I'm polishing my banhammer as I write this. 

WezV

RaymondLin said:

 But the point is that if you dry it properly, like you do with acoustic guitars (VERY important) then it shouldn't move at all (if kept in the right humidity).  PRS dries all their wood and crystalises all the resin inside it and they make a big point of it.  I wonder if Gibson do the same and if not, why not.

there is no such thing as the right humidity. Hawaiian Uke's survive years just fine in hawaii's 65%+ humidity because its relatively stable all year, but once they change to a different enviroment the humidity issue really raises its head.  With acoustics you are after as constant as you can get - but even that won't stop these small movements unless you seal the guitar in a constant environment for all its life (hardly practical)... and even then, if its finished in nitro it will still sink in and joins can reappear 

Even with perfectly kiln dried or old seasoned wood, you will still find the wood can change as soon as you saw into it.   it remains hydroscopic forever and there are other tensions and forces on a cellular level that can change dramatically between the seasoning process and the final shaped piece of wood. 

wherever you join two pieces of wood, the join will eventually become more prominent than it was. wood changes more along its length than width, but if you put two different woods next to each other and they both move in different ways at different rates then its easy to see why joins will appear.. which is whats happened between the fretboard and neck here

You don't want (can't have) fully dry wood, you want stabilised wood.  "Kiln dried" usually means the moisture content is less than 18% at the point it left the kiln.  once its exposed to the environment that will change  up or down depending on humidity

iirc correctly PRS use hotrooms for  drying and stabilising their wood.  Any references to "crystallizing resins" should be taken as marketing blurb  as its really just a different way of saying "drying".   

57Deluxe

Lew said:

Wait 'till it turns custard. That's just the nature of the beast.

I'am not saying anything about its colour - I got the ivory white so that is looked more aged... My Olympic White Strat is already biscuit beige and is one year younger than the LP.... 

martinw

57Deluxe said:

Do you accept that to have guitar with a nitro finish means a pay-off between optimum tonal quality and a gradually buggering finish?

Would you accept this as part of the historic relic chic ethos??

Yes. And yes.

If you want a tough finish that will last for many years, use poly or acrylic, not an old-fashioned finishing method.

Two thirds of guitarists seem to want guitars that look like they've barely survived El Alamein, the others seem to want the things to look untouched, despite opting for a finish method that was used on the Ark!

pmg

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c375/pmg/imagejpg7.jpg

ICBM

I still want to know what this "poly" finish is.

mike_l

monquixote said:

Unless you diss my haircut in which case I'll ban the shit out of you.

At least you've enough hair to have a diss-able haircut.

 

 

RaymondLin

Neil said:

RaymondLin said:

Gibson used to made a point that they only used wood that is aged and been sat around for X number of years.  They don't anymore.  But the point is that if you dry it properly, like you do with acoustic guitars (VERY important) then it shouldn't move at all (if kept in the right humidity). PRS dries all their wood and crystalises all the resin inside it and .....

.....then seal it in plastic.  :-S

Sorry, you can't compare two very different finishes.

I'm confused, what's that got to do with wood drying process?

Neil

RaymondLin said:

Neil said:

RaymondLin said:

Gibson used to made a point that they only used wood that is aged and been sat around for X number of years.  They don't anymore.  But the point is that if you dry it properly, like you do with acoustic guitars (VERY important) then it shouldn't move at all (if kept in the right humidity). PRS dries all their wood and crystalises all the resin inside it and .....

.....then seal it in plastic.  :-S

Sorry, you can't compare two very different finishes.

I'm confused, what's that got to do with wood drying process?

Nothing to do with the drying process just to point out that you can't compare the finishes between PRS and Gibson. 

As Wes pointed out there doesn't seem to be much difference between the way PRS  or Gibson kiln dry their wood.

WezV

one of the finishes inhibits the hydroscopic properties of the wood, thereby helping keep the wood stable (dry - in your terms).  although it can only do so much, moisture and temperature changes will eventually affect any guitar

noisepolluter

suspiciousminds said:

Tbh,
I'm looking forward to my junior special finish to start wearing.

I'm keeping my J-45 out of the case for the same reason. Come on, UV light!

ChrisMusic

Am I wrong ?  I thought that PRS used nitro up until the introduction of the V12 finishes in 2011 or '12

Does anyone know what the V12 finish actually is ?

In answer to the original pictures, the movement cracking at the neck / fretboard junction really isn't great for a guitar of that calibre, especially one that has been looked after indoors.  That said, sealed up and centrally heated houses are pretty arid places and are not good for old timbers, which is where a lot of unsympathetic house restorations get it wrong.  But I am shocked by those pics.

57Deluxe

pmg said:

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c375/pmg/imagejpg7.jpg

Well here at least you could run something brown or black into the crack to disguise it - shoe polish for instance... no-one be the wiser, BUT in my case is not JUST the fretboard join, is also starting where they have butt-joined the body sections... not very rock 'n' roll that -  is it...??

pmg

Unfortunately for you it's in a noticeable area on a colour which will show up any marks, dings, blemish etc very easily. Still, it's only cosmetic

crunchman

ChrisMusic said:

Am I wrong ?  I thought that PRS used nitro up until the introduction of the V12 finishes in 2011 or '12

Does anyone know what the V12 finish actually is ?

Older PRS are all poly.   They started offering nitro around 8 or 10 years ago on a few models.  The DGT may have been the first nitro one - around 2008.  They did some other nitro ones on a few models around that time as well but most of the range was still poly.

When they introduced the V12 finish they seemed to put in on all models. It will be interesting to see how that looks as some the guitars get some age on them.

I wonder if the nitro finished DGTs will end up fetching a premium in years to come.

ICBM

ChrisMusic said:

Am I wrong ?  I thought that PRS used nitro up until the introduction of the V12 finishes in 2011 or '12

According to their website, they used polyester basecoat with acrylic urethane top coat, apart from certain specific models (but not many) which used nitrocellulose - it was certainly never their standard finish. I think the very earliest models used polyurethane, but I could be wrong.

ChrisMusic said:

Does anyone know what the V12 finish actually is ?

Allegedly it's an acrylic/nitrocellulose hybrid, but I don't know if that's marketing BS or even chemically possible...

richardhomer

ICBM;267438" said:

ChrisMusic said:

Does anyone know what the V12 finish actually is ?


Allegedly it's an acrylic/nitrocellulose hybrid, but I don't know if that's marketing BS or even chemically possible...

What it definitely appears to be is much thinner than the previous finish.

The 'V' aspect is inevitably meant to infer 'vintage'. It apparently took twelve years to develop....

My '11 McCarty shows signs of slight sinking into the grain and no 'pooling' around the point where the neck/fingerboard meet the body. Looks very thin indeed.

ChrisMusic

Thanks guys, I am quite happy to be wrong when there is such expert knowledge around.

Not sure where I got the nitro idea, so thanks for putting me straight on that.

I just love this place, it's so cool