Nut files - should beginners be wary?

guitarfishbay

I'm going to need to fit bigger strings to my guitars, which will mean I need to widen my nut slots.

Since I'm going to be doing this to at least 3, possibly 4 guitars I'm wondering if I should just bite the bullet and buy some nut files.

I have no experience cutting nuts, but I'm willing to work slowly and I'm willing to buy the proper Stew Mac (or alternative, if there are?) nut files.

Is this an advisable thing for a beginner to do?  Which resources (online or printed) are recommended for learning how to do this? 

Or is it too easy to get wrong and then wind up paying for a tech anyway?  I'm not adverse to paying for someone to do the work for me but I figure it is about time to start expanding my own skill base when it comes to guitar repair.

Thanks

WezV

i messed up probably my first dozen or so nuts and it was almost always by going too low on the high e

took me that long to realise the thinner nut file was cutting a lot faster than the thick ones.

 

 

go slow and you will be fine.  it won't take much to widen the slots

octatonic

WezV said:

i messed up probably my first dozen or so nuts and it was almost always by going too low on the high e

took me that long to realise the thinner nut file was cutting a lot faster than the thick ones.

 

 

go slow and you will be fine.  it won't take much to widen the slots

+1.

Go to a pet shop and get a cow bone.

You can cut/trim it down to make a bunch of nut/saddle blanks (wear a mask).

You can do it by hand but a bandsaw is much more efficient of course.

Fatfingers

And don't buy the cheap, Chinese nut files on offer for around 20 quid a set on eBay. At least not if you want to cut a nut on an electric with 10 to 46 strings, as they're too wide.

I tried them on a 335 copy. I may well try again, moving the thinest ones up two strings and grinding some junior hacksaw blades for the top E and B strings.

guitarfishbay

WezV said:

i messed up probably my first dozen or so nuts and it was almost always by going too low on the high e

took me that long to realise the thinner nut file was cutting a lot faster than the thick ones.

 

 

go slow and you will be fine.  it won't take much to widen the slots

Yeah, having watched the tech I use widen the slots on a guitar in the past it didn't look like a lot of work but watching any skilled task being performed by a professional can make it look easier than it is.

Does anyone have a recommendation for an online resource (or book) that gives clear and correct information with regards to widening nut slots?

I think making a nut from scratch is something I won't attempt (or need to) for a while.  But do you think  I should get the bone and practice filing anyway before starting @octatonic ?

@Fatfingers no I don't see a point in buying cheap tools.  I was thinking of getting the Stew Mac files, is there anything else worth considering?  Any UK suppliers that stock good files for example?

maltingsaudio

If you want to learn how to do it the only way is by making mistakes so go for it. Start obviously on your least precious guitar, never underestimate the amount of gaffa/ masking tape you need to put over the bits of the neck which might get hit by an over enthusiastic swipe with the file ( I prefer gaffa its more resilient and provided you leave it on for the least amount of time as likely to leave a mark as any other tape) Also resist the urge to make cosmetic swipes with the file these are the ones which always balls up a good job! 

Gagaryn

maltingsaudio said:

If you want to learn how to do it the only way is by making mistakes so go for it. Start obviously on your least precious guitar, never underestimate the amount of gaffa/ masking tape you need to put over the bits of the neck which might get hit by an over enthusiastic swipe with the file ( I prefer gaffa its more resilient and provided you leave it on for the least amount of time as likely to leave a mark as any other tape) Also resist the urge to make cosmetic swipes with the file these are the ones which always balls up a good job! 

Have to say - I would never use gaffa tape directly on a guitar - especially if I planned to remove it and leave the finish! I appreciate you haven't had a problem but I think you may have been lucky. Much safer to use low tack masking tape - then  gaffa over that if you like.

Gassage

Mark D Phillips is your man.

He has his own method for cutting nuts......especially if you have big hands.

impmann

+1 on that!

Gassage

Here you go....perfection

maltingsaudio

Gagaryn said:

maltingsaudio said:

If you want to learn how to do it the only way is by making mistakes so go for it. Start obviously on your least precious guitar, never underestimate the amount of gaffa/ masking tape you need to put over the bits of the neck which might get hit by an over enthusiastic swipe with the file ( I prefer gaffa its more resilient and provided you leave it on for the least amount of time as likely to leave a mark as any other tape) Also resist the urge to make cosmetic swipes with the file these are the ones which always balls up a good job! 

Have to say - I would never use gaffa tape directly on a guitar - especially if I planned to remove it and leave the finish! I appreciate you haven't had a problem but I think you may have been lucky. Much safer to use low tack masking tape - then  gaffa over that if you like.

Does depend on type of gaffa you use the cheap stuff is crap

guitarfishbay

I only have gorilla tape as far as gaffa goes, I've never used it in a situation where I'd be worried about leaving residue but man that stuff is strong.  I don't think I'd be using it in this situation.  I've got plenty of masking tape so no worries there.

imalone

Gaffer on masking? Gaffer on scotch? (Not ideas for taping, I'm workshopping concepts for a new TV documentary series in the midlands.)

thermionic

Dan Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair Guide - you can learn a hell of a lot from that.

octatonic

guitarfishbay said:

I think making a nut from scratch is something I won't attempt (or need to) for a while.  But do you think  I should get the bone and practice filing anyway before starting @octatonic ?

No point I don't think- the action of filing is pretty simple- it is learning how far to go with the files that is the skill.

You WILL ruin a bunch of them- the bone from a pet shop will cost you a quid and you can make about 20 of them out of it.

guitarfishbay

Ok, it looks like I have 3 choices.  There is barely any difference in price, so does anyone have advice on which set I should buy?  My gut instinct is that I like the handles on the Stew Mac Double sided files plus they look like they'd be useful for bass guitar, but I'm concerned about the lack of in between sizes.  Any help appreciated thanks.

Hosco files bought in the UK.  A good buy at £118?  I can just pick them up from Stockport it is only round the corner from me, or shipping is £4.68 if I can't be bothered, making them £122.68

 http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/nut-files-set-of-10.html

String gauges are 0.01, 0.010, 0.013 ,0.016, 0.024, 0.028, 0.032, 0.036, 0.042, 0.046, and 0.056.

Stew Mac Double edged files, £88.88, plus 20% for import vat so £106.66, plus £15.50 for express shipping bringing the total to £122.16.

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Files/Double-edge_Nut_Files.html

Guages are:

0.012" / 0.020"

0.026" / 0.032"

0.036" / 0.042"

0.050" / 0.060"

0.075" / 0.090"

0.105" / 0.120"

And Stew Mac Single edged, £97.04, plus tax is £116.45, plus shipping is £131.95

http://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tools/Types_of_Tools/Files/Gauged_Nut_Slotting_Files.html

Gauges are: 

0.010" width

0.013" width

0.016" width

0.020" width

0.024" width

0.028" width

0.032" width

0.035" width

0.042" width

0.046" width

0.050" width

0.056" width

imalone

If you're considering the Hosco then tonetech also do double edged/gauged ones in sets of three (total six gauges, with separate acoustic, electric, classical and bass sets, yes there are three doubled edged files in the bass set...), which works out a bit cheaper unless you are going to need ten gauges.
Disclaimer: I've no idea what they're like.

guitarfishbay

Well, how accurate to the string gauge do I need to be with the file size?  Again with those files I'd be a bit off sizings.  The guitar set wouldn't be any use as it doesn't go thick enough on the bottom, and the acoustic set misses other guages.  They're £72.50 a set, if I need two sets then I don't see a point in not just getting the single sided Hosco ones and saving money.

The string guage I'm likely to fit will be:  Plain Steel .011, .014, .019, Nickel Wound .032, .044, .056

Hosco guitar double sided = Gauges are 0.010, 0.013, 0.017, 0.026, 0.036, 0.046 inches

Hosco Acoustic double sided = Gauges. 1=0.016, 2=0.026, 3=0.036, 4=0.042, 5=0.050, 6=0.055

BenSirAmos

If I needed to widen my slots, I don't think I would do it with nut files. The professional nut files have flat sides precisely so that you don't cut your slot wider than you need. I'd use wet and dry, possibly folded around an old string. You are talking about removing very little material.

If I was felling sloppy, I'd use old wound strings as files to widen the E A and D slots.

BenSirAmos

And the other thing to consider is the existing nuts that you want to widen. 

Old crappy plastic? You will probably crack old plastic using nut files to widen the slots. But then you can use the nut files to cut new bone nuts, which isn't really that difficult - although I too probably screwed up several in learning. Nut blanks are not that expensive

I used to use junior hacksaw blades, ground flatter, when I cut brass nuts. I still much prefer brass and found it easier to work with - I seldom made mistakes, whereas bone is much softer. I might go back to brass just for a laugh - but I shall only use professional nut files for the final touches because brass will wear out files.

Go on - have some fun. 

guitarfishbay

2x PRS nuts and 1x Gibson nut, whatever comes stock on the US guitars (I think the PRS is graphite).  Fourth possible is my US Standard Strat if I think I want a single coil guitar tuned that low - not bothered at the minute.

This is a bit confusing, am I supposed to be buying files or just sandpaper?