ASL From the maker of … Oil City!

WezV

yep

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/accessories/seymour-duncan-zs-1b-zephyr-silver-bridge-humbucker-pickup

and look at the packaging - totally worth it

https://reverb-res.cloudinary.com/image/upload/a_exif,c_limit,fl_progressive,h_620,q_85,w_620/v1402261729/uomgiorciokia24hhwvr.jpg

FelineGuitars

Strangely Seymour missed a trick with the silver by not uing clear bobbins......nobody could see the wire.

Dave_Mc

^ He'd have had to up the price by about $1000 to offer that.

OilCityPickups

The big problem with wire these days is so few companies make it. Years ago every major industrial nation had a copper winding wire industry. Today most is made in China or South America ... there is no UK wire making industry ... and only a tiny one in the US. Getting specialist colours and sizes of wire is very difficult as manufactures are not willing to do anything smaller than huge batches at big money prices. The wire used on most of my ASL output is US made and quite expensive.
Wire quality does make a difference to the sound, and ASL was always intended to be a no compromises line.

ThePrettyDamned

TheGuitarWeasel;390710" said:

The big problem with wire these days is so few companies make it. Years ago every major industrial nation had a copper winding wire industry. Today most is made in China or South America ... there is no UK wire making industry ... and only a tiny one in the US. Getting specialist colours and sizes of wire is very difficult as manufactures are not willing to do anything smaller than huge batches at big money prices. The wire used on most of my ASL output is US made and quite expensive.

Wire quality does make a difference to the sound, and ASL was always intended to be a no compromises line.

So what is the difference between, say, cheap pickup wire and better quality pickup wire?

Genuine question, hope I'm not being silly!

OilCityPickups

There is a small but appreciable difference in sound between modern 'poly coated' wire and old fashioned, plain enamel wire. I did loads of A/B testing on identical guitars and actually confirmed to my satisfaction that for certain pickups ... not all by a long way ... but for some, plain enamel was the best choice. Unfortunately It is three to four times the price of 'poly' and is far harder to get.
Bare Knuckle for example use PE in all their 'classic' humbuckers ... and poly in their high output units. 

steamabacus

TheGuitarWeasel said:

There is a small but appreciable difference in sound between modern 'poly coated' wire and old fashioned, plain enamel wire. I did loads of A/B testing on identical guitars and actually confirmed to my satisfaction that for certain pickups ... not all by a long way ... but for some, plain enamel was the best choice. Unfortunately It is three to four times the price of 'poly' and is far harder to get.
Bare Knuckle for example use PE in all their 'classic' humbuckers ... and poly in their high output units. 

Could you quantify the difference between enamel and poly wire in any way, @TheGuitarWeasel ?

I'm interested because I discovered that the two Duncan humbuckers that I've liked the most - the Jazz and the Alnico II Pro - are supposedly pretty similar except for the obvious magnet difference. They both (if what I've read on the Seymour Duncan forums is correct and I believe it was stated by somebody working at SD) use more modern poly-coated wire rather than the PAF-style enamel coated wire.

So what does poly do to the sound?

ThePrettyDamned

TheGuitarWeasel said:

There is a small but appreciable difference in sound between modern 'poly coated' wire and old fashioned, plain enamel wire. I did loads of A/B testing on identical guitars and actually confirmed to my satisfaction that for certain pickups ... not all by a long way ... but for some, plain enamel was the best choice. Unfortunately It is three to four times the price of 'poly' and is far harder to get.
Bare Knuckle for example use PE in all their 'classic' humbuckers ... and poly in their high output units. 

Thanks

I'm happy to take your word on that.  

By the way, I'm hoping to be getting some 50s style strat pickups from you in November for my birthday... Which is very exciting.  

FelineGuitars

steamabacus said:

TheGuitarWeasel said:

There is a small but appreciable difference in sound between modern 'poly coated' wire and old fashioned, plain enamel wire. I did loads of A/B testing on identical guitars and actually confirmed to my satisfaction that for certain pickups ... not all by a long way ... but for some, plain enamel was the best choice. Unfortunately It is three to four times the price of 'poly' and is far harder to get.
Bare Knuckle for example use PE in all their 'classic' humbuckers ... and poly in their high output units. 

Could you quantify the difference between enamel and poly wire in any way, @TheGuitarWeasel ?

I'm interested because I discovered that the two Duncan humbuckers that I've liked the most - the Jazz and the Alnico II Pro - are supposedly pretty similar except for the obvious magnet difference. They both (if what I've read on the Seymour Duncan forums is correct and I believe it was stated by somebody working at SD) use more modern poly-coated wire rather than the PAF-style enamel coated wire.

So what does poly do to the sound?

There are a few differences between the Jazz and the Alnico 2 pro

Jazz is wound with a metric gauge wire (0.06 gauge - or what we tend to call 42 and a half gauge) with Poly coated wire and A5 magnet

Alnico 2 pro is 42 gauge poly coated and A2 magnet

From extensive back to back testing of identically wound coils  during our work on the Tour 84 I can tell you that the Poly  coated seems to have a little more high end (and sound better on clean) whilst the plain enamel has a  bit of a low mid accent.

The actual copper wire inside is of the same quality , but the insulation affects the sounds to a small degree.

Each type has it's benefits, and we choose based on getting the best sound for the wind we are looking for

OilCityPickups

like da man said lol

steamabacus

Thanks for the info, @TheGuitarWeasel. I'd never heard of '42-and-a-half' gauge! You're assessment of more top end would match my pickup preferences (I like clarity and articulation) and explain my affinity with these particular models.

OilCityPickups

0-060mm a metric size not used by builders back in the fifties. It has certain useful properties ... not the least of which is being able to 'fit' hotter winds onto short 49.2 bobbins that would bulge horribly with 42awg

FelineGuitars

A batch of ASL Blackbird pickups arived this morning - one set is to replace the ones from my own B6 that (Blackmachine founder) Doug "borrowed" and another set will go into a Feline Lion to be tested in that style of guitar.
The others are ready to be fitted in B6s and sent out to eager customers.

I've ordered up another batch.
I think Ash is going to photo the build process and feature it on here or I'll put it up on on the Feline website.

ThePrettyDamned

He knows a thing or two about pickups, doesn't he?

Really hope the line is a big success for the both of you - the pickups speak for themselves!

Philly_Q

Oops, typo on the packaging!

I thought they said Blancmange Blackbird for a minute.... 

ThePrettyDamned

Philly_Q said:

Oops, typo on the packaging!

I thought they said Blancmange Blackbird for a minute.... 

Hard rocking pickups with a spongey, jelly-like response when played clean. 

Perfect for wobbly chords.

OilCityPickups

Lol ... I was bloody knackered when I did those ...

OilCityPickups

Well I think the typo stays ... those first production sets may become collectors items for future buyers :-)

Production is continuing with yet more ASL Blackmachine Blackbirds (including a black set) ... and I will produce a photo series detailing the build of these. As you can see Doug and Jonathan are keeping me busy!
I must find time to put a set of Blackbirds in one of my own gigging instruments :-)

ThePrettyDamned

Clear bobbins = win.

Nice to see you're thinking of the future vintage market.

"blackmachine blacmachine pickups, pre-typo correction, original London handwound vintage pickups, like signed abby ybara but British".

hubobulous

Clear bobbins is just ace. I really like them.