Neo? speaker in old MusicMan amp?

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BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
I have on old MM 65 1 x 15" combo.  I love the sound but have a ropey back these days and it's just too heavy to lug around.

Checking out the specs of these I notice the 1 x 15" at 58lbs is a stonking 9lbs heavier than the 1 x 12" at 49 lbs.  I imagine the bigger cab wouldn't be responsible for a lot of the difference and it's mostly down to the weight of the speaker.  Since the alnico speaker in the 1 x 12" is presumably not particularly light, it looks like I could lose a huge amount of weight by putting in a lightweight speaker.

Anyone any thoughts on what would be a suitable replacement speaker?
“To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    I think you'd be surprised how much difference the larger cabinet makes, but even then reducing the weight of the driver will make it noticeably lighter.

    The real problem you're going to have is that neodymium 15s are (almost?) all intended for high-powered bass applications, so they may not have the right sort of frequency or dynamic response you need for a guitar amp.

    The *lowest* rated one I can find with a quick search is the Eminence Deltalite, at 300W and with an upper frequency roll-off at 3.7KHz.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • ecc83ecc83 Frets: 1589

    You could of course make an adaptor baffle and fit a 12" Century but is that a 65W nominal amp? If so that is too hot for a single Century.

    Making a big cab "smaller" is not a problem just use some expanded polystyrene blocks.

    Dave.

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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    edited June 2014
    I'm not sure what "nominal" means in that context but it's a 65 watt amp.  Wouldn't there be other, higher rated options? 
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    edited June 2014
    Plenty, but they're designed as bass speakers so they probably won't sound very good in a guitar amp.

    The original Celestion Century (not the 'vintage' model which is a stupid name for a Neo anyway!) was 80W-rated though, so you could look for a second hand one.


    'Nominal' - manufacturer's specified power output, which may or may not bear much relation to actual electrical power output. In this case it does, but if you're not going to crank the amp into power-stage distortion a '60W' Celestion will *probably* be OK since Celestion are fairly conservative with their ratings… although I'm not quite so convinced about some of their new models.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    Just to clarify, even if I go for a 12" I won't get a guitar speaker that will handle 65W?
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    I note that MM have a new line of amps.  I've been a bit unconvinced by the marketing (for me they've picked the wrong amps to reissue) and I wonder how close they'll be to the originals.

    But they are very significantly lighter, using (I think) Neo speakers.  The 212 HD 130 has DV Mark Neoclassic speakers rated 300W?  
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    edited June 2014
    Just to clarify, even if I go for a 12" I won't get a guitar speaker that will handle 65W?
    The only proper guitar 12" Neo I know of which will take more than 65W is the original Century… but that doesn't mean there aren't others!

    There are also plenty of guitar speakers which will take more than 65W, but they're all ceramic or Alnico, and plenty for bass (both 12" and 15") including Neos which will take *way* more than 65W. You just need to work out if there's any combination of all those things which will both sound good for guitar and weigh significantly less than the one in it just now.

    But even if there is, my honest guess is that there probably isn't one which will make *enough* difference to a 58lb amp to make the effort to find it worthwhile. At best, you're going to save about 3lb - a big ceramic speaker magnet is 50oz; a light neo is 7oz; difference is 43oz or 3lb 1oz.

    It's not the speaker that's the issue really. The main weight of that amp is (as it almost always is) in the cabinet and the transformers.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • pickergpickerg Frets: 30
    How about the Jensen Neo 12 or 15?  Rated for 100w and 150w respectively.  Someone mentioned in the Telecaster forum that they have had good results with the Neo 15 in a Peavey Delta Blues.
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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    Thanks for the input guys,

    Yeah it would need to be a substantial reduction in weight to be worthwhile.  It was actually a tech who suggested the neo idea.  I called him to see if he could make the combo into a head.  
    He said he could but discouraged me on the grounds that it would be desecrating a fine old amp and suggested neos instead. 

    I may have to think about going back to plan A.  It may be a fine old amp but:

    - it's not practical for me at its current weight
    - it's not worth much and wouldn't be an easy sell (it was stored in an outhouse for many years and is very tatty)


    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • pickergpickerg Frets: 30

    How about getting a head cabinet made, then (provided you have the storage space) you can keep the fine old amp cabinet?  Then use with a 1x12 cab with a Neo speaker in.

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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    pickerg said:
    How about the Jensen Neo 12 or 15?  Rated for 100w and 150w respectively.  Someone mentioned in the Telecaster forum that they have had good results with the Neo 15 in a Peavey Delta Blues.
    Aha! I guessed there might be ones I hadn't come across.

    [files away for future use]

    pickerg said:

    How about getting a head cabinet made, then (provided you have the storage space) you can keep the fine old amp cabinet?  Then use with a 1x12 cab with a Neo speaker in.

    Exactly. Get someone to make a head cabinet - you can even deliberately make it lighter than a real MusicMan one would be, by using thinner ply, since it doesn't actually have to be that strong… 1/2" or even 3/8" should be plenty.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • HeartfeltdawnHeartfeltdawn Frets: 22096
    edited June 2014
    Try theJensen Tornado. 100 watts, neo magnet, light, and widdles all over the Jensen Neos and the Celestion stuff. 


    And yes, I'd go with making the MM into a head unit :)



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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    Seems the head cabinet looks the best idea.  Problem will be sourcing someone local able/willing to do it.
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • midlifecrisismidlifecrisis Frets: 2341
    getting cabs made and buying speakers one way.....maybe sell it and buy something the right size and price you require.
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16253
    I note that MM have a new line of amps.  I've been a bit unconvinced by the marketing (for me they've picked the wrong amps to reissue) and I wonder how close they'll be to the originals.

    But they are very significantly lighter, using (I think) Neo speakers.  The 212 HD 130 has DV Mark Neoclassic speakers rated 300W?  

    interesting, I couldn't see any prices but perhaps they would be too scarey. They are using custom neo speakers and are relatively light weight amps.
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    getting cabs made and buying speakers one way.....maybe sell it and buy something the right size and price you require.
    Ordinarily this would be good advice but as stated the amp is IMO the best I've played, not worth a lot of money, and could be hard to sell in its current condition.  If I rehouse it then I end up with an amp as good as a boutique amp for a couple of hundred quid tops.  
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • midlifecrisismidlifecrisis Frets: 2341
    fair enough.id just be concerned that part of the good sound you like might change drastically by changing speaker and even changing cabinet. Its just something you don't know until you try.
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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    fair enough.id just be concerned that part of the good sound you like might change drastically by changing speaker and even changing cabinet. Its just something you don't know until you try.
    You can try it through a different cabinet before incurring any expense - just take it in a shop or borrow one.

    My money is on the reissues being nowhere near as well made and that they probably won't sound the same.

    I accept yours may be in ropey cosmetic condition, but its probably worth salvaging.

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  • BlueingreenBlueingreen Frets: 2582
    fair enough.id just be concerned that part of the good sound you like might change drastically by changing speaker and even changing cabinet. Its just something you don't know until you try.
    Yeah I'm aware of that risk too.  For all that the MM amps generally have an excellent reputation I do think that mine is exceptional, and I've often wondered if that's down to the comparatively rare 15" speaker (I suspect most 15s were bought by pedal steel or keys players).
    “To a man with a hammer every problem looks like a nail.”
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71957
    You should probably just buy a sack trolley.

    Yes I am serious :).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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