Real vs Clone

ThePrettyDamned

I suppose that is true, and they never asked for the enormous popularity either.

But it does explain neatly why they are cloned.

Richardj

I have a slightly romantic notion that some of the clones might be put together with a little more love and attention to detail. Possibly with better quality components than a manufacturer would bulk buy. This of course applies to more mass produced pedals rather than Timmys and such like.

kelvinburn

I like violet rams head big muffs.  I wouldn't pay the price they are charging for them or trust one live.  I have an M Designhaus RAW which sounds every bit as good, looks cool as fook and I could bludgeon someone to death with it.

juansolo

frankus said:

I like Paul Cochrane and Alphonso Hermida wanting to do a job they enjoy - I don't see why they should have to go from solder jockey to manager overseeing shipments and QA just so more people can get their mitts on a pedal.

As for booteek clones of booteek pedals - well, good pedal builders gotta start somewhere, recreating the masters to begin with perhaps.

If you look at the situation from the point of view of the maker, rather than the buyer - it makes more sense.

Booteek is a bit of a derogatory term amongst builders, it means something else They're the ones who are cashing in using marketing, hype and vastly inflated prices. Essentially making a quick buck. I don't consider PaulC and the like to be a booteeker. He does it right.

I've no idea whatsoever how he makes a living out of the Timmy (because IMO he sells it far too cheaply), but all power to him.

frankus

juansolo said:

Booteek is a bit of a derogatory term amongst builders, it means something else

If my efforts on freestompboxes and madbean have taught me anything, it is that I'm something other than a builder: something invisible to builders

juansolo

I'm non-existent on FSB and DIYSB to be fair and I barely stick my head around the door at BYOC these days. I weirdly can't stop popping in to TGP for the car-crashiness of it all, even though I know it's wrong and a little bit dirty. Bean is the only place I seem to sort of fit in... But then they're all freaks and weirdos

Dave_Mc

^ Yeah it's hard to stay off TGP. Did you see that whole TMG fiasco? Crazy.

frankus said:

If you look at the situation from the point of view of the maker, rather than the buyer - it makes more sense.

To be fair, if you look at the situation of a bank robbery from the point of view of the robber rather than the bank, it also makes more sense. )

juansolo said:

Booteek is a bit of a derogatory term amongst builders, it means something else They're the ones who are cashing in using marketing, hype and vastly inflated prices. Essentially making a quick buck. I don't consider PaulC and the like to be a booteeker. He does it right.

I've no idea whatsoever how he makes a living out of the Timmy (because IMO he sells it far too cheaply), but all power to him.

+1

joeyowen

Bidley said:

 Why people spunk hundreds on fancy Tubescreamers I'll never know.

I've got an Analogman TS808 and a digitech bad monkey.  There is a difference, but whether or not that would be heard on a record/live I doubt it... The difference probs isn't worth the price, but hey, if you can afford them, why not (I got mine cheapz)

therose789

Brand new a TS808 is £175 and a JHS moonshine brand new is £159 - I have played both and the moonshine wipes the floor with it! 

Given the choice i would buy the moonshine over the 808 anyday and its a 'clone' 

Bidley

therose789 said:

Brand new a TS808 is £175 and a JHS moonshine brand new is £159 - I have played both and the moonshine wipes the floor with it! 

Given the choice i would buy the moonshine over the 808 anyday and its a 'clone' 

Semantics. I'm talking about the £300-400 mystery boxes that come with mad TGP hype, daft paint and 500 switching options that do nothing. You can also buy a Joyo for £25 that does the TS thing too, which is more what I'm getting at.

frankus

I was forced to reconsider the "law of diminishing returns the other day" ... so my youngest has bought FIFA/Panini World Cup Sticker Album

The Album was £2 or so
Cost of stickers is £60

But wait... £60 buys 600 stickers... not 600 non-identical stickers.

Estimates are as high as £450 to fill the album if you've no mates to swap with.

What use is an empty sticker album?
What use is a part filled sticker album?

Gathering swaps seems to be the way to go... it's part of the fun - as is trading, interacting with builders, DIY etc in the pedal world.


Some people have lots of money and no mates - it's a surprisingly common coincidence

Clones made by boutiques offer a different price point, opportunity for a little variation, educate/fund the builder to make better.

@Dave_Mc good point - but bank robbery is involuntary and buying pedals is voluntary

Dave_Mc

^^ Yeah. I mean it's debatable if a TS808 is worth £175 (price I found was ~£160, fwiw), either.

frankus said:

@Dave_Mc good point - but bank robbery is involuntary and buying pedals is voluntary

Oh yeah, absolutely. I didn't mean it was completely analogous. I was merely making the point that if you look at something totally from one person's point of view, that you can maybe understand why they do it- but that still doesn't necessarily justify it or make it ok, either.

And if you ask me, pretending a new "game-changeer" overdrive is something totally new when it's just a glorified tubescreamer is skating very close to not being voluntary, either i.e. fraud. In my opinion.

frankus

I reached a shocking discovery building a bare-bones dufed up board.. (total cost £60)

£23 old jen wah - needed a bit of TLC
£20 old Route 66
£16 old old beat up small clone with an mn3007 (squee)

What else does it need... really ... the chorus does a chorus and vibey type thing... what else is needed? not much really... if at all.

looks at posh board, tiny board and plans for the ME50 ... buggar!

I don't think there's a game changing overdrive out there... unless it has harmonics that creates metal fatigue in those tiny hooks you get on bras... that'd be an awesome game changer...

Lew

Because you want to earn prestige amongst your fellow church worship players who will admire your JHS and Strymon pedals wired up with Mogami.

Lew

Boutique has been a dirty and turn off word for me for a long time now.

I s'pose you could ask the same about guitars n amps n all manner of gear related things.

As said, a clone is often the only way of getting a discontinued whatever without breaking the bank on vintage gear and sometimes it can just be better.

But mostly it's about impressing people on forums :-p

Dave_Mc

frankus said:

I don't think there's a game changing overdrive out there...

Me neither. That's not to say there aren't some very good ods out there, and even maybe some very good ods which are still to be designed- but I can't imagine any completely blowing me away, either. I know what they are, and I know what they do, and I doubt I'm going to be shocked any time soon (nor do I really need them to be any better than the ones I like, either).

juansolo

9 times out of 10, a stock Tube Screamer is all you need really.

Dave_Mc

Yeah (or an SD1, which is hardly boutique either and more or less a variation on the same theme anyway). Or a more transparent-type OD- and that's only because I play at pretty low volumes and like the extra saturation I get from using a boost, but I find a TS too middy for use as a rhythm-tone boost... I use a ts or sd1 for a lead boost though.

Maybe if you use them as standalone ODs like the TGP crowd does the fancier ones make more sense, but yeah for me I just need the bog standard one. I actively want the bass cut/mid boost and compression. )

frankus

that said I totally love the Umble

Dave_Mc

I don't think I've tried a single Dumble-style pedal ) Admittedly, I don't really need or want Dumble tones.