Do I need a specialist microphone?

TheDarkLord

I have a bit of an on-stage problem I would like to tackle ......... possibly with the use of a specialist microphone?

I use a TC Helicon voice processor for some of the songs that we do live:

• to give vocal effects on a couple of songs
  
• to give hard pitch correction (T-Pain) style to one particular song and
  
• to autotune one particular high pitched song that can sound terrible if I get it wrong
  

Trouble is, the guitar sound can bleed though the PA - and end up having the effect added - with undesirable results.

We don't mic the guitar cabs up in any way, as we usually play small pubs and clubs - and only stick vocals through there.

Is there a specialist microphone - or some other procedure - that I could use which would minimise this issue of the guitar (and some of the drum sounds) coming through the PA with added effects?

digitalscream

Maybe a headset mic? They're designed to work at close-range only, and it'll always have your head in the way of any incoming sound.

IanSavage

What mic are you using at the minute? If it's a standard cardioid pickup pattern, a super or hyper-cardioid might help...

TheDarkLord

IanSavage said:

What mic are you using at the minute? If it's a standard cardioid pickup pattern, a super or hyper-cardioid might help...

Standard Shure SM58 

TheDarkLord

digitalscream said:

Maybe a headset mic? They're designed to work at close-range only, and it'll always have your head in the way of any incoming sound.

I know, but I'm the joint lead singer in the band ..... and that would look too weird.  If I played keyboards I'd do that - but not as a guitar player.

Cirrus

It's all about the mike's pickup pattern. A mic such as the very common SM58 has a cardioid pattern, which means that sounds coming from directly in front of it are picked up the loudest, and as the sound moves off the the side of the mic it gradually gets quieter so that by the time a sound is coming from directly behind the mic it's very very quiet indeed. Like so;

Usually vocal mics are set up in front of the backline amps, kind of pointed in their general direction so it's only natural that they'll pick up some guitar sound. There are ways to minimise this though;

- Get a hypercardioid mic or even a shotgun mic. These are much more directional, so sound coming from the sides (off-axis) won't be picked up as well. However, this pickup pattern has a quirk in that sounds directly behind the mic get picked up quite clearly so you need to be careful not to point the mic directly away from a foldback monitor - you want it to be about 130 degrees off axis or you'll get more feedback -

- Move the guitar amps further off axis, angle the cabs away from the mics, or angle the mics away from the cabs.

- Turn the guitar backline down.

- Sing louder and turn the mic's gain down.

- Sing closer to the mic and turn the mic's gain down.

Those are your options. The Audix OM2 is the first google result for a hypercardioid dynamic mic at £66.

steamabacus

Sounds like you need a noise gate between the mic and the effects processor. Will the TC unit itself do that? If not, a separate noise gate should do the trick - you may have to sing right up close to the mic if stage levels are really high and the gate has to be set quite high. Should be achievable though.

Making sure that the guitars aren't aimed direct at the vocal mic will help, too.

Cirrus

Why do I keep seeing threads with no replies, then when I reply I see only mine... only to come back five minutes later and see loads of replies before mine? Makes me look as ignorant as I probably am.  )

maltingsaudio

If you have a look at the Dave Rat video posted in this thread http://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/18455/mics-for-live-vocals#latest it will give you an idea about mic pick up patterns, IMHO for your situation an audix OM7 would suit your  application perfectly it doesn't pick up anything that isn't directly shouted into it, you will have to adjust your technique though because it doesn't pick up anything that isn't shouted directly into it! 

ESBlonde

A differiod mic will effectively cancel the wash/background noise provided it's not even too loud for that. You do have to kiss the grill all the time you're singing but on a loud stage that should be pretty normal.
Otherwise see the recent thread about singing drummers, although position of the sound source makes one heck of a difference (see the post above about pickup pattern).
With my big soul band I always laid my 2x12 on the floor in front of me like a monitor and miced it up. Made for a clean stage sound and neatly defined FOH sound.

Danny1969

You need to change the overall way your working if you want to use things like pitch correction live, it can work perfectly but first you need to get the voice to spill ratio much higher in favour of your voice   .... and that means lowering the volume of the backline and drums. 

Firstly as advised above use a mic with a tight pattern and keep yourself on it, set your compressor threshold  so it only bites on the loud bits of vocal and keep the ratio conservative like 3:1  Too low a threshold will make the spill prob worse

Don't set up your amps on stands behind you like a normal pub band, Put the guitar amps on the floor and keep the volume lowish. mic up the guitars

Don't use wedge  monitors, use IEM's 

Plexi shield around the drums can help, Oil filled snare skin, quieter cymbals, if the drummer use's a particularly loud ride or crash cymbal get him to position it as far from you as possible. 

I've got examples of live autotuned vocals working wel, l normally using some of the methods above, the mic of choice for me is a Senn E945 but I hear some of the Audix mic's like the hyper cardioid OM5 are great as well 

As I said you can do it but need to start thinking more about setting up as you would with live studio recording band, rather than setting up like a basic pub band

Emp_Fab

How about transposing the songs into keys you can manage, and if you still sound pants, get singing lessons.  :-)

I'm not a fan of autotuners.  They are the work of the devil.

Failing that, a noise gate and everything Danny says.