2 amps

hotpickups

I've been long toying with the idea of having 2 amps alongside each other. What are the advantages of this really? Will I be louder for example if they were both 20 watts? Would the normal usage of a set up like this be one will be set dirty and 1 clean? I will be using A/B/Y switch to control them etc

I look forward to your views

ecc83

From "First Principles" you would need the clean amp to be considerably more powerful than the dirty one if you want the subjective loudness to be about the same.

A ball, park, sort of, agreed power level is that you can gig a modest pub with a 15 watt valve amp (and 100dB/W speaker) if you don't want super loud, super clean cleans but once you get into dirt 15 W should be fine unless you are a nutter (or the drummer is!)

30watts is reckoned the minimum for good, loud cleans and that into a pair of 100dBW speakers but you really need 50W+ to get super clean.

Naturally everyone and his brother will have an opinion here but I would aver these are the sort of minimums you would look at?

Dave.

hotpickups

Thanks Dave. Yes the other option I did think of was as you say, 30-35 watt clean and a 20 watt dirty. So I must be on the right tracks

jpfamps

This is what most pros do on big shows.

It really makes the FOH job a lot easier as each amp can have a separate channel on the desk and the levels can then be mixed better. What you don't want as a sound engineer is some on stage changing their levels.

If you simply want to switch between two amps, then an inexpensive A/B switcher is all the is needed.

If you want the option of running two amps together you need to consider:

1) Ground loops, which can cause hum

2) Phasing; if the amps are out of phase then you will loose bass frequencies.

The way to avoid these problems is to have one output transformer isolated; this will allow a safe ground lift to break ground loops, and a phase inversion switch can easily be implement.

The Radial Bigshot is well-built and inexpensive passive device that has these features.

If you want more sophisticated logic switching with buffering then there are more expensive devices that give this functionality (eg Lehle).

Whether 20W is loud enough for clean will depend on the size of gigs you do,  and whether you mic the guitar. Also if you want the clean sound as a dedicated rhythm  sound then that would be quieter than the lead sound anyway.

For one of the regular gigs I do a Deluxe Reverb would be more than enough for a clean sound (I don't really play with much distortion) unmicced. Equally it would be fine at other gigs where the guitar is miced.

hotpickups

Blimey it's all getting complicated. I can see why only the pros do it as they have experienced stage hands and sound engineers at their disposal. I think it might have to stay as a pipe dream for the moment

Gagaryn

I got one of these that does the job perfectly. No hum or popping when changing amps.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fender-023-4506-000-ABYPedal-True-Bypass/dp/B00HQXUH5W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1405452735&sr=8-1&keywords=fender+aby

hotpickups

That's nice and cheap Do you use 2 amps at the same time ever then?

Deijavoo

I've toyed with this for ages, but two channel switchers with ping pong delays for certain ideas. Decided it was going to cost a fortune for what would be in my heathen hands a gimmick.

Plus I've read so much of this before:

jpfamps said:

If you want the option of running two amps together you need to consider:

1) Ground loops, which can cause hum

2) Phasing; if the amps are out of phase then you will loose bass frequencies.

hotpickups

I like to think I am a plug n play player but all the extra gear I'll need for 2 amps is taking the glamour away from it

Cacofonix

Try it.  You'll only find it's a problem if it turns out to be a problem.. So if that happens, turn one of the amps off and use its cab as a second speaker.  Then try again in another venue.

Gagaryn

hotpickups said:

That's nice and cheap Do you use 2 amps at the same time ever then?

TBH, I only bought that because it was so cheap, I did use it for a bit just to compare different sounds from my amps. I normally use both amps in stereo through the El Cap and Big Sky. I've been using it 'backwards' so to speak, to put two guitars through my rig when jamming with a mate at home - it's a handy wee thing for the price of a few pints.

Deijavoo

hotpickups said:

I like to think I am a plug n play player but all the extra gear I'll need for 2 amps is taking the glamour away from it

Aye, partly why I then thought about two lunchbox heads in a stereo 4x12. Kinda defeated all the objective that I had though.

Danny1969

With Superheroes I'm using a stereo power amp and stereo 4 x 12 cab. I run one side kind of dry and that side is mic'ed for FOH. The other side is for stage sound and I have that wetter. If I want more onstage sound I can turn the wet side up and it won't affect the level going to FOH

I did a gig years ago with a Vox AC30 and a Valvetronix AD120 combo, both mic'ed to see if the difference could be heard between the real thing and the fake. Quite enjoyed it at the time but other than that never felt the need to use more than one amp

ecc83

There is of course one big advantage of running two amps, instant backup.

Dave.

hotpickups

Yes there is that

ICBM

Hence all the extra Ashdown bass amps you see at pro gigs... although generally the spare is turned off and just there ready, rather than running at the same time.

hotpickups

Maybe I'll wait until I'm a bit MORE pro before forking out for what I wanted as a second amp and now the extra bits of kit I'll have to think about now

57Deluxe

is just a 'my dick is bigger' syndrome... nobody hears any difference...

hotpickups

57Deluxe said:

is just a 'my dick is bigger' syndrome... nobody hears any difference...

Yes I'm beginning to realise that myself. However, Nalle Colt of Vintage Trouble who uses 2 amps really does have a great sound. At least I'm half way there replicating it

57Deluxe

/\ yeah but small Tweeds get lost in a backline so maybe having two makes it look like you are not just a hobbiest like the rest of us are! Also -  one could be just an empty cab  of course... (so that ppl don't think he has an erectile dysfunction...)

hotpickups

LOL At least the new Lazy J35 is bigger sized if that appeals to the size minded people