Vintage guitars

koneguitarist

Do you think, pricing is now totally out of touch with reality with some shops.

There are two shops within 20mile of me with a 72 tele in, one with a custom thin line, battered, with refinished neck for £3,000 and the other with a std tele from 72 decent condition for £3,000. 

Is it me ? 

meltedbuzzbox

I thought Tele's of that age were more commonly around the £2k mark?

Still £1800 too much for a 70s Fender if you ask me

Iamnobody

Yes.

richardhomer

It amazes me what is considered 'vintage' these days.

Until the last few years, anything post-mid 60s was considered '2nd division'

I played a Blonde '68 Esquire a couple of years ago. I was heavy, had a really over-sized neck pocket and a poorly shaped neck. It sounded dead. at £4000, it was and nowhere near as good as an American '52 reissue - the older version of which can be had for around £800.

Any old(ish) guitar seems worthy of a premium these days.

I remember when it was all just fields....

koneguitarist

Just looking online, and even 80's strats like this (it's not a 79) http://denmarkstreetonline.co.uk/product-details/1979-Fender-Hardtail-Stratocaster are going for more than a custom shop strat, which will piss all over it for quality.

Is there really that many people who are daft enough to want to pay way way over the top for poor quality guitars of which you can buy so mich better less than half the price! 

jd0272

Wouldn't thank anyone for a '70's Big Name guitar really. Had a mid-'70's Strat moons ago and it were blah. I concede, tainted opinion, but it's my cash. (It was bloody awful mind).

The vintage Gibby thing is a bit OTT. Jnr's and stuff still 'reasonable', but the Big Boys (late 1950's LP's/Explorer's/V's) are just crackers. Especially as those who bought at the peak for a premium are a bit 'fckd' for the long term as values bombed, and they don't wish to be realistic about market forces. Ok it must hurt somewhat if one bought as an investment at $200k +, to find it will only realise $80k + today, but there you go. Investment is about risk. They are rare and irreplaceable, but one has to be able to afford to eat.

richardhomer

koneguitarist;338508" said:

Just looking online, and even 80's strats like this (it's not a 79)

http://denmarkstreetonline.co.uk/product-details/1979-Fender-Hardtail-Stratocaster

That's an '81 from the 'international' series. The very last Fullerton guitars with big headstocks, no body contours and crap pick-ups. They were the guitars that made Squier and Tokais a success.... The fact I know that and the dealer selling it doesn't (or chooses to describe it wrongly) really cheeses me off!

The truth is, a used American Standard Strat (at £500 - £600) would be a significantly better guitar.

Fools and money are easily parted...

monquixote

I've been playing enough to remember before 70's Fenders were considered vintage. 

I remember when I bought my strat in the mid 90's they had a stack of old 70's Fenders for considerably less than new 90's standards I tried a few and most of them were total firewood. The guys in the shop were advising don't touch them with a barge pole and laughing about the fact that people were saying soon they would be considered vintage.

Philly_Q

I think anyone over the age of 40.... well, maybe closer to 50.... grew up with the "received wisdom" that '70s and early '80s Fenders, and to a slightly lesser extent Gibsons, were crap.  Too heavy, thick plastic finishes, generally poor workmanship...

And now it's hard for us to believe they're considered "vintage" and desirable.

I'm sure there are good ones out there if you try enough of them, but if I wanted a '70s Strat (and I do like the look of them) I'd get a new reissue or make one out of parts.

jd0272

Philly_Q said:

I think anyone over the age of 40.... well, maybe closer to 50.... grew up with the "received wisdom" that '70s and early '80s Fenders, and to a slightly lesser extent Gibsons, were crap.  Too heavy, thick plastic finishes, generally poor workmanship...

And now it's hard for us to believe they're considered "vintage" and desirable.

I'm sure there are good ones out there if you try enough of them, but if I wanted a '70s Strat (and I do like the look of them) I'd get a new reissue or make one out of parts.

Reality is tho, they are vintage. Thus £££££ ^^^^^ cause there's a market.

meltedbuzzbox

Its a market driven by collectors.

We now have terms like "investment grade" because of this players cant get at the 60s Fenders and the 59 Les Pauls etc.

Are they better than the latest custom shop/historic models. For me no. 

But if someone is willing to buy into all that mojo jazz good luck to em. 

OilCityPickups

Later 70s Strats were crap ... the 70s Fender thing didn't really affect Teles that badly. I have had several 70s Teles and they have all been pretty good on the whole.

xchrisv

I had a '73 Tele Custom for a while that was better than plenty of '60s Fenders I've played and wonderfully light and resonant. Plenty of ship's anchors and just generally bad old guitars out there though...

monquixote

Yeah I should add the Fenders I was referring to were 78-79 strats which were total balls. 

Really heavy, wimpy pickups and very dead sounding.

ICBM

There are good 70s Fenders and Gibsons - more Gibsons, although they made more bad models, if that makes sense - but by and large they are certainly the very guitars which really got the vintage market going by being so much worse than 50s and 60s ones, and they're not "vintage" now just because they're old. They got progressively worse - both the proportion of bad guitars and how bad they were - for both companies throughout the 70s, with a final low point of around '79-'81, before as said the Japanese came along to scare the pants off both companies.

Personally I wouldn't buy any Tele made after 1972 and before the reissues because they have the wrong body shape, and it bothers me. Same with Les Pauls with the late-70s sharp body horn. Although now, I actually like the big-headstock Strats because I associate the look and sound with Hendrix and Blackmore.

But if I wanted a big-headstock Strat and couldn't afford or find a decent late-60s one, I'd buy a Japanese or Mexican reissue. They look the part but are actually good…

Even if you do find a good one, anything over a grand for a late-70s Fender or over double that for a late-70s Gibson is just silly.

richardhomer

^
It's certainly true that some decent guitars were built in the '70s. I once played a lovely Olympic White '72 Strat that was the 'right' weight, had a lovely neck and sounded superb. I would certainly pay 'good' money for that guitar today - though probably not as much money as the market/dealers might 'say' it is worth....

The trouble is, even the junk (like the '81 Strat @koneguitarist posted the link to) is 'silly' money.

To me, one of those should be cheaper than a used American Standard - it is a 'lesser' guitar by comparison.

A 'good' one (like the '72 I mentioned) shouldn't be more than a Custom Shop guitar. The current 'dealer' price for one of these is over 50% more than this - which is simply too much....

I do not subscribe to the view that just because something is old, it is inherently better. It's a well worn cliche but when Eric Clapton recorded The Bluesbreakers album, his Les Paul was about 5 years old. It was almost new!

OilCityPickups

I have a Vintage Modified Squier 70's Strat .... and it wipes the floor with pretty much any late seventies Strat.

JohnnyPlectrum

It's no different with cars, motorbikes and no doubt loads of other things.

Modern equivalents stop, steer, and work better than their older relatives.

Guitars are the same.

I don't think many people lash out a huge pile of dosh on old guitars expecting them to perform like a new one. They lash out huge piles of dosh for rarity, investment and personal satisfaction.

Personally I'm slowly finding 1976 instruments despite some of them being dodgy to say the least.

Unfortunately there's a tendency for sellers to over value stuff just because it's old.

usedtobe

World's gone mad, I tell thee...

xSkarloey

Isnt it all shops that exploit the perception among some that older=better and therefore 'vintage'?

Prices near me seem to follow the rule of thmub to that the older it is the more you can charge.

One well known shop even peddles the line that older (Korean) Epis are better than the current Chinese lines, which may be true in some instances and models but which isn't right as a blanket assertion. As a result they have some really indifferent guitars for sale for as much as or more than the new equivalent.

I also remember a write up on buying vintage Strats in a magazine once and they quoted a shop as saying a late 70s model for sale was the "world's worst Strat". Didn't stop them asking good Strat prices for it though.

For me, a good guitar is a good guitar regardless of age or where it's from,but mere age is no guarantee of superiority.

impmann

Wow - better reinsure my 1972 Tele...

TBH, post '72 Teles get a bad rap due to the change in shape - some are boat anchors too - but they tend to be better than their equivalent Strats (or Offsets). Although the pickups are worse than shite IMHO.

I've had two early 70s Tele (and a late 60s one) that were all superb - would I have spent £3k on any of them... er, no... not really but they are nicer than some of the interweb would have you believe...