Does anyone play in a band that uses electronic drums for gigs?

rich75

Hi All

My band is currently having a problem with our drummer, in that he needs to spend a fair amount of money (that he currently doesn't have)on essential maintenance to his acoustic kit, but also can't afford to keep running a car that's big enough to cart the kit around to rehearsals and gigs.

I'm starting to think an electronic kit could be the answer to both problems, but just wondered if anyone has experience of playing with one at gigs? If so, how does it compare to the 'real thing'?

I'm liking the idea of a drummer that comes with a volume control but I'm worried that an electronic kit just wouldn't have enough sonic presence on the stage. Is it just a question of getting the right monitoring on stage?

Any thoughts on this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

Jalapeno

Works fine for us.  It does mean ours starts practising his paradiddles earlier during the setup, but now we can turn him down !  

EricTheWeary

I have done.

In terms of sounding like the real thing -  only drummers know, no one else cares that much ( if at all) [ insert smiley winking face here!]. They don't neccesarilly play like the real thing and some drummers won't adapt well ( the drummer in the band I was in only used electronic drums and had problems playing acoustic). If going through a PA or even for recording demos it is so quick to get  a decent sound though. Load in and out is generally much quicker too.

Our drummer had some huge all in one PA thing that could get considerably louder than an acoustic kit so although we could turn him down he could also turn up (sonic presence was not an issue!). We would use it as a vocal monitor as well. Unless you have a pretty good PA I suspect you won't be able to use the PA only and will have to budget for some form of additional amplification.

They can look a bit wank of course.

The other problem we had was triggering. In partcular on some stages low bass notes would trigger a drum. You might find, for example, that a low E on a bass guitar thwacked on a wooden stage can make an acoustic kit make rattling noises. With an electronic kit that would be actual random drum hits triggered. The drummer had to adjust the sensitivity of the pads to overcome it and that made the playing experience worse. This was a few years ago so more modern kits might overcome this.

The other possibility is a Flatts kit ( I think that's right). These are like saying to a guitarist ' can't you get rid of that Marshall stack and use a Mustang I instead?' but they will fit in a much smaller space, failry cheap used and are quieter. For additional sonic presence they will need mics and a good PA.

BenSirAmos

Its been a couple of years - but here is the same band doing 'still got the blues', once with an acoustic kit and once with an electronic kit. 

With the acoustic kit we used valve amps for the guitars and with the electronic kit I used a pod 2.0 and the other guitarist used a behringer vamp thing

Did the audience care about the kit? Probably not - but it is more fun playing guitar through a valve amp

failed_astronaut

How knackered is his acoustic kit that it needs so much money spent on it?

I've often thought that if I was going to get back into drumming live I'd look into a Flats kit, or something like Yamaha's "Gigmaker" line.

If your drummer was willing to try adapting his playing style, a lighter guage of sticks will make a big difference to his overall volume.

Electronic kits are a really good tool but you generally need to spend quite a bit of money to get mesh heads, dual trigger cymbals, a good sound module and (as Eric has said) additional amplification.

Danny1969

With the exception of cymbals you can buy a whole used Pearl Export kit or similar for about £150, I would do that

I've gig'ed with Vdrums a few times, it's ok but I prefer the drummer to have a real kit. Fake snare drums drive you crazy after a while .... the same relentless Donk Donk Donk ......... the kick is fine and so are the toms but electronic snares are no good for ghost notes, rolls etc . They just sound fake

mike_l

I don't play in a band, but have seen/heard electronic kits used by bands and at jam nights.

Other than the visuals of seeing a "proper" drum kit you wouldn't know.

The band that played at my friends wedding used one and they were fantastic. Sonically, at gig volume (they were quite loud) there was no difference between electric and acoustic drums.

When they're behind you, you won't notice.

EricTheWeary

Just on the car thing  - when we sold my son's drum kit the guy who bought it had a series 1 BMW. I told him he wouldn't get the kit in it but he did ( cymbals in the foot wells, snare drum on the passenger seat,etc). He was a drum teacher who gigged ( buying our kit on behalf of a student)and said he got his own kit in there all the time.  How small a car does he want to have?

rich75

Thanks to everyone who has responded - all very useful comments that give me plenty to think about.

As regards cars, his one is off the road and he's been borrowing a saloon that won't take his bass drum. If he gets another car it will be whatever his finances will allow.

I suspect the electronic kit would be a 'band' purchase as we really don't want to lose the drummer, but I just wanted to get some opinions on it before I put the idea to the rest of the band.

RocknRollDave

Our drummer sometimes uses his electronic kit - usually if there's a sound limiter.

Pros:
More control over volume
More control over the sound
Punters won't notice and/ or care
Less onstage volume

Cons:
They do look a bit rubbish
They change the way you play
They require monitors - if the drummer doesn't have a proper monitor or the right monitor mix with an acoustic kit, they might be able to wing it. With electronic kits, they have to have that monitor.

EricTheWeary

Danny1969 said:

I've gig'ed with Vdrums a few times, it's ok but I prefer the drummer to have a real kit. Fake snare drums drive you crazy after a while .... the same relentless Donk Donk Donk ......... the kick is fine and so are the toms but electronic snares are no good for ghost notes, rolls etc . They just sound fake

with a really good electronic kit that isn't an issue I think( our drummer had a Roland kit that cost about £3K). On the other hand budget is clearly an issue here so all that will probably be true. But, wether that translates to the audience is another matter. If you  are a drummer or you hear your drummer week in week out then all that stuff grinds. For an audience member are they really like to review it ' worst gig ever, the snare sounded fake.' ?  
:bz

Danny1969

EricTheWeary said:

Danny1969 said:

I've gig'ed with Vdrums a few times, it's ok but I prefer the drummer to have a real kit. Fake snare drums drive you crazy after a while .... the same relentless Donk Donk Donk ......... the kick is fine and so are the toms but electronic snares are no good for ghost notes, rolls etc . They just sound fake

with a really good electronic kit that isn't an issue I think( our drummer had a Roland kit that cost about £3K). On the other hand budget is clearly an issue here so all that will probably be true. But, wether that translates to the audience is another matter. If you  are a drummer or you hear your drummer week in week out then all that stuff grinds. For an audience member are they really like to review it ' worst gig ever, the snare sounded fake.' ?  
:bz

It's just a limitation of any electronic drum technology. When you hit  a drum roll on a real snare it's not just a question of differing volumes with the hits but also different tones from the head as it's trying to recover from one hit while being hit again which creates overtones you just can't recreate on any electronic kit no matter how much you spend. But I am anal about shit like this, I don't like it when I can detect a sample has been used in place or augmenting a real drum on a record. It's one of those things, once you know what it sounds like you can't stop hearing it. 

But then as you say might not matter, audience don't care or might not care. 

PolarityMan

I think they sound shit if your tryingt o replace an acoustic kit. We've played the same bill as bands using them, mostly middle age pub covers stuff and their drums always sound like arse. It's a little better if you pair it with real cymbals.

I reckon the only way to make it work is to make the electronic element part of the sound....ie/ integrate it stylistically into the music.

koneguitarist

I used to play in a 4pc band using a drum machine, Alesis SR16 back in the early 90's.

Worked absolutely brilliant, but the main thing is when using a drum machine or electronic kit, is to use the same sounds on everything the whole night apart from the snare. 

How many drummers do you know who change bass drum about 4 times during the set, or change all his toms etc, play it like its a regular kit, audience won't care as long as he can play in time!

JayGee

Long ago in a galaxy far away I did a couple of gigs with a drummer who's pride and joy was a Simmons SDS-7. I thought that looked kind of cool and sounded pretty good too but it might have been just an '80s thing... :-)

jpfamps

I've depped for a band that employed a Roland electronic kit.

It sounded pretty good. The drum samples did sound to me like the type of sound you here on a recording, ie with quite a lot of processing, although of course that is the sound many bands try to recreate live anyway using accoustic drums. Indeed many genera of music use samples triggered by accoustic drums on record, and if you are trying to recreate the hideous drum sounds of the 80's you are probably better off using an electronic kit.

There are a ton of drum samples available, so it's unlikely that you can't find something that works for you.

I'm afraid I don't like the attitude "the audience can't tell so why bother" (I actually disagree with this statement), as I think that this can lead to a slippery slope of low production values.

However, I do think that the electronic kit can solve a lot of problems for bands playing in pubs: drums are too loud, bleed through into the vocal mikes, difficult to get a good on stage sound.

So whilst, in my opinion, they don't sound as good as well tuned accoustic kit, it could be it allows the band as a whole to sound better.

EricTheWeary

I think the problem with the 'audience can't tell' slope is that musos often end up looking at it from the wrong end. It depends a lot on the music/ audience but a clear balance with well defined vocals is probably audience priority number 1 from a sound point of view ( and not too loud/ quiet too) and the authenticity of the snare drum sound somewhere well down the list. From my own experience if 80% of the band's set up time goes into getting the drum sound right the band overall will sound shit.

impmann

Nothing *quite* sounds like a proper acoustic kit. But having played pubs where noise is an issue, an electronic kit (a good one) is a boon. The audience don't care what equipment the band use to create the music, but it has to sound good and in a low noise situation, an electronic kit played hard has more energy than an acoustic kit played quietly...

hubobulous

We used to and it worked well. To be honest, it was potentially a better live mix than we have now, but our drummer wanted an acoustic kit as a sort of Utopian Dream of all that he'd worked towards, so we couldn't really deny him.

Volume is the bitch, as well as mic'ing up the kit. None of that was an issue with an electronic kit.

sticker

My function band has had 2 drummers over the years with electronic kits .

They work great for singers ( less moaning about the volume levels ) but need decent monitors for the rest of the band .

Cheaper kits do suffer from the "repetative snare" /"machine gun" issues , get a good 2nd hand Roland kit - and either some V-xpressions upgrades or use it to trigger BFD or the like and it could be a good solution for you ...

rich75

Thanks very much to everyone who has responded - all very helpful.