How much would you pay for an "Made in China" guitar.

Arktik83

This is going to be a contentious issue and rightly so but I was in a local music shop today and I went there with a few guitars in mind to try, one was an Ibanez Fireman in a HSH configuration with DiMarzio pups.

So the clerk brings it over and I'm looking at it and liking what I see, see the price of the guitar is around £979 and I was thinking: "If this is Made in Japanese then that's pretty good, if Made in Korea then fair do's" but I see "Made in China" just stamped on the back of the headstock and "How Much??  For Made In China??" popped in to my head.  I did feel pangs of shame because it's a downright snobby thing to think so I gave it a little strum and play.

Acoustically it felt dull and wooly, granted the strings were old and had seen better days but there were flaws on the finish too where the body paint had bled in to the neck coat near the join etc but it wasn't a lemon.  The frets felt good and the humbuckers were good as to be expected, the general fit and finish was good, the fingerboard a bit anemic but with Rosewood nowadays that seems the norm unless it's a Custom shop jobby.

I ended up taking the Mira S2 because it felt SO much more like me, really comfy neck, lovely pups and just felt right to me. 

Just wondering would you pay that kind of money for a MIC factory guitar?  It's not a custom shop guitar so I mean if it was hand built by a pro luthier with decent woods etc that'd be a bargain no doubt but just wondering, is it too much?

ICBM

I would pay what I thought the guitar was worth for the quality it is. Country of origin by itself is irrelevant.

It is true that normally, Chinese-made instruments are lower quality than those made elsewhere and so *should* be cheaper, but the same was once true of Japanese ones as well. It's not the country of original that has changed and made Japanese guitars desirable now, it's that the quality has improved.

The quality faults you describe are quality faults plain and simple, not inherently due to the country it was made in. When the Chinese make a guitar to exactly the same quality as one made in another country, it will be worth the same. Currently the Chinese are lagging a bit behind in quality, although that may be as much a self-perpetuating problem exactly for the reason you said - the market perception that a Chinese guitar 'should' be cheaper, hence they cannot afford or justify better quality control yet. It took a while for the Japanese to be taken seriously too.

I am typing this on a high-quality computer which was made in China.

Dave_Mc

It depends on how good it is, I think.

If it's made anywhere where labour is cheap (not just China), I expect it to be a bit cheaper than what an equivalent-quality instrument would cost if made somewhere with high labour rates. If it's genuinely boutique quality (from the sound of it the one you tried wasn't- I haven't tried it) then £979 would likely be alright, assuming a boutique quality guitar from the USA would be double that.

richardhomer

I think this is a really interesting question - and one that if we are honest, is probably about our engrained prejudices.

In the mid-70s, Japanese meant 'cheaper than American' - and looked down on. By the late 70s, it meant 'better than American and highly respected'.

I played some Ibanez Artcore semis a few years ago which were made in China and I was knocked out by the quality. At the time they were about £500 - they seemed 'dear' for Chinese and 'cheap' for what they were.

I bring the baggage of being 50 to these comments - of course 'all' proper guitars were American when I was growing up. 40 years ago (I'd been playing for a couple of years by then) I never imagined I would get to visit the States. My parents had never left the country! It was a place of wonder - the home of Rock and Roll, diners and electric guitars!

Makers like Taylor produce fantastic quality in Mexico, your Mira has Korean pick-ups and it is rumoured that the Gibson Eric Clapton Crossroads 335 had a body made in Japan....

Increasingly, I think it's about does the guitar (irrespective of origin) measure up? If it does, that's really all that matters....

Arktik83

Some very valid points well made, it was a shame that it did have the flaws which just heightened my snobbery even though those flaws could happen in any factory no matter the country. 

I guess it's also the cost of everything going up nowadays!  I mean Fender Standard strats are around £1,300!!

xSkarloey

I'd play a guitar made anywhere if it made me smile for all the right reasons when I played it,  and the price tag didn't make me laugh for all the wrong ones. 

Fuzzdog

ICBM said:

I would pay what I thought the guitar was worth for the quality it is. Country of origin by itself is irrelevant.

Yup, same here - I've had enough guitars over the years which were made all over the world to realise good guitars can come from anywhere.  As, of course, can utter crap.

equalsql

I thing the Squier Classic Vibe series and the recent Chinese made Burny Super Real series of instruments have put  to bed the myth that all guitars coming out of China are bad. They really are superbly built.. Ditto on Michael Messer resonators.

It all comes down to  who's actually running the show and therefore managing the QC.

Skipped

I don't have a limit in mind.

In fact...when I see a quality guitar made in China that sells for £300....my reaction is: What could they do if they were working on a street price of £500.
And I think the same about the MIM Fender guitars. Why limit the concept to the £400 to £700 price bracket? How amazing would a Classic Player guitar be with a thinner finish and hand finished fretwork?? (just as examples).

streethawk

You can buy a handmade, solid wood archtop from China for around a grand. 

I would not pay close to that for a factory made Ibanez MIC - simply based on the market.

Must have been charging RRP?

rossi

I first realized Chinas potential when I bought a stuffed Care Bear for my daughter  in about 1985.I was amazed how much it cost ...11 quid ,pricey for the time .Its quality was superb ,the stiching ultra neat .My daughter still has it though she has a sprog of her own now .I knew what was coming having seen it with Japanese goods  having been in the motorcycle industry and electronics in the 60's.china are really getting quality right iF they are allowed to .Often the  company that commissions the works wants a very low price and middling quality so as not to interfere with their US made products.The Trohman Tele even a full price was  superb quality and I also played a Modern Player  Starcaster which I couldnt fault ..so the quality is there waiting to really let rip but if you keep going down the 'avoid MIC " route you are shortchanging yourself .A thousand quid Chinese made guitar should be superb and if it aint then its a rip off.Chinese costs are still way lower than the cheapest in the West .

monquixote

I think the answer is less than a Rasmus cost. 

They were superb guitars made to an extremely high standard, but because they were made in China and relatively expensive no one would buy them.

As @ICBM mentioned I'm typing this post on a MIC laptop that didn't provide much change out of £2K so I think it's fair to say they can produce some decent stuff when they want to.

randomhandclaps

ICBM said:

I would pay what I thought the guitar was worth for the quality it is. Country of origin by itself is irrelevant.

Absolutely agree.  I got bought a high end Ibanez by my lovely wife.  I took it out the case and loved it.  Then after a couple on moments noticed that it said 'Made In Indonesia' on the back of the headstock.  It took me back and I rather snobbishly tried to find something I didn't like about it (without letting onto my wife) as I was a little bit disappointed that I had an expensive guitar from Indonesia.  Once I got over myself I have to say it is built phenomenally and well worth what she paid.

ThePrettyDamned

monquixote;344479" said:

I think the answer is less than a Rasmus cost. 

They were superb guitars made to an extremely high standard, but because they were made in China and relatively expensive no one would buy them.

As @ICBM mentioned I'm typing this post on a MIC laptop that didn't provide much change out of £2K so I think it's fair to say they can produce some decent stuff when they want to.

Took the words from my mouth. Rasmus is proof that we won't spend much unless it's USA made (or others, but mostly USA).

Bit daft, really.

The example I use is my friend's epi Explorer. I offered him 500 quid for it, even though he paid 200 used. It is, quite simply, one of the best guitars I've played and heard, bar none. £500 quid is a bargain for a guitar that good.

He won't sell.

10thumbs

I think Farida guitars are Chinese ,they have a pretty good reputation .....

...... wouldn`t buy one myself of course , ahem, cough, cough.... :-\" 

paulnb57

My Michael Messer Lightning Resonator was made in China to MM specs and is fantastic quality for the money, Its not National quality but its a third of the price and probably better than any other "budget" reso...its a keeper (probably)

richardhomer

I think the Rasmus example is slightly problematic.

Suhrs are essentially very finely made Fender-like guitars. Ultra-upmarket copies, in a way.

As soon as you take that concept down-market you are into American Standard territory price-wise. You are trying to sell a 'down-market' version of an 'up-market' copy at the same price as 'the real thing'.

I was convinced Suhr would struggle with these when they were launched.

The residuals on 'real' Suhrs is awful these days - which would make them even harder to sell if they were still in production.

Drew_TNBD

To me it would be down to how much I think it cost to make, and how much profit I think the shop and manufacturer are making. I like to try to make an informed decision.

How much do you think your average guitar in China costs to make?

I have to stress, I disagree completely with Richard. I really don't think it's anything to do with prejudice. I think it's because we've all been told that for decades China has been producing instruments and other gear really cheaply (price-wise, not quality-wise) and so we, as clever consumer capitalists... we expect to benefit from that.

I know I do anyway.

richardhomer

^ Yet we pay through the nose for Apple products - which are made in China.

I understand that irrespective of origin, the maths in the guitar world is that for any imported instrument, the UK retail price is circa SIX TIMES the 'build' cost.

On that basis, no guitar offers good value....

usedtobe

randomhandclaps said:

ICBM said:

I would pay what I thought the guitar was worth for the quality it is. Country of origin by itself is irrelevant.

Absolutely agree.  I got bought a high end Ibanez by my lovely wife.  I took it out the case and loved it.  Then after a couple on moments noticed that it said 'Made In Indonesia' on the back of the headstock.  It took me back and I rather snobbishly tried to find something I didn't like about it (without letting onto my wife) as I was a little bit disappointed that I had an expensive guitar from Indonesia.  Once I got over myself I have to say it is built phenomenally and well worth what she paid.

I've had quite a few guitars, over the years, and some of my favourite ones have been made in Indonesia. People are quite snotty about country of origin, though, I find.

Drew_TNBD

richardhomer said:

^ Yet we pay through the nose for Apple products - which are made in China.

Cult of personality, herd mentality, and mass conformity.

I understand that irrespective of origin, the maths in the guitar world is that for any imported instrument, the UK retail price is circa SIX TIMES the 'build' cost.

On that basis, no guitar offers good value....

The reason that companies build things off-shore is because it is often cheaper to do so and ship them back home, than it is to build them at home in the first place.

If the retail price is around 6 times the build price, doesn't that actually prove my point?