Finally taking the plunge - bypass loopers

MikkiMcMurderer

I've been using this pedalboard for years and years, with different combinations of pedals but always everything in series.

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad40/samgoldshark/IMG_0265_zps31439f65.jpg

But I've finally had enough of risking everything going down if one cable or one pedal goes down. I've also had enough of compensating for the signal loss by boosting the signal at the front with the compressor always on.

So having pondered and evaluated Gig Rigs, rack based systems and even binning it all and going AxeFX, I've decided I love my pedals too much and I want them in front of me rather than in loops and all instantly accessible as I never use the same combinations twice for songs - I like being spontaneous in what I chose on the fly.

So I'm going for a Brightonion 20 loop strip as per this format:

http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad40/samgoldshark/20Looper_zps710597a5.jpg

I'm going to put all the pedals at the front on a shelf above the second row to make space for the looper - could be an interesting tetris exercise. And I'll need to rewire everything etc with double the amount of cables but I hope it will be worth it in the end.

Any advice?

dano

Looks like creating one monster from another !

Is each of the twenty switches just a bypass loop,  or preset which allows you to program certain loops to be enabled for each switch ? 

MikkiMcMurderer

Yes each switch is just a simple loop, no programs. 

cbellanga

Remember you will need a humongous amount of path leads as each pedal now will need a pair

benmurray85

Check out the rig rundown for RHCP's Josh Klingfilmer (can't remember his name) he's doing the same sorta thing as you and his tech gives a great explanation.

Mind you I'm guessing you already have

ICBM

Are those switches standard 3PDT mechanical ones, and all in series in the signal path? If so, you're still risking one failure taking out the whole board. At best, if you wire all the switches with the 'x' bypass path* you can minimise it, but not eliminate it entirely. If the switches operate relays it's better but still theoretically possible for it to fail.

* 'x' bypass path: many builders wire true bypass switches poorly with the bypass going through both switch poles in series, which doubles the chance of a failure. If you wire it instead with both poles in parallel - the wires make a small 'x' on the switch - you nearly eliminate failure, at least of the bypass, because it would need both poles to fail at the same time.

monquixote

I'd be thinking about one of the Buzz Electronics ones personally so I could switch in more than one thing at a time. 

They only go up to a 12 loop one though.

MikkiMcMurderer

ICBM said:

Are those switches standard 3PDT mechanical ones, and all in series in the signal path? If so, you're still risking one failure taking out the whole board. At best, if you wire all the switches with the 'x' bypass path* you can minimise it, but not eliminate it entirely. If the switches operate relays it's better but still theoretically possible for it to fail.

* 'x' bypass path: many builders wire true bypass switches poorly with the bypass going through both switch poles in series, which doubles the chance of a failure. If you wire it instead with both poles in parallel - the wires make a small 'x' on the switch - you nearly eliminate failure, at least of the bypass, because it would need both poles to fail at the same time.

Oh blimey - you can't win can you! I suspect that as this is costing £230 - they will not be relays but mechanical switches. I'll ask the Brightonion guys to do the x bypass though - thanks for the tip!!!

MikkiMcMurderer

cbellanga said:

Remember you will need a humongous amount of path leads as each pedal now will need a pair

Yes - more bloody money ;-) !!! 

MikkiMcMurderer

benmurray85 said:

Check out the rig rundown for RHCP's Josh Klingfilmer (can't remember his name) he's doing the same sorta thing as you and his tech gives a great explanation.

Mind you I'm guessing you already have

I have seen it, thanks. That where I got the idea of going with Brightonion but I didn't want to do their solution as you'd still need to know which pedal went down to take it out of the path with those dip switches - you'd still be scrabbling around on the floor mid song!

Gassage

I really wouldn't do this. I totally wouldn't.

I'd be looking to reduce pedals to minimum first (I don't believe you'd ever need 2 diff flangers !) and then buffer with a push pull buffer like the Skydstrupt or Empress.

The amount of tone loss in those cable runs will be enormous. Take this from someone who once had a 14 bay LoopMaster built that was horrendous tonally.

Read this:

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

ICBM

It might also be a good idea to have an emergency 'master bypass' switch - also with 'x' wiring of course - to give you the instant option of going straight to the amp if something goes wrong.

I must admit I never got round to doing any of this either! With up to a dozen pedals… never had a failure, but if I had the only solution would have been to manually pull the cable and go straight into the amp, because it wasn't built for troubleshooting.

MikkiMcMurderer

ICBM said:

It might also be a good idea to have an emergency 'master bypass' switch - also with 'x' wiring of course - to give you the instant option of going straight to the amp if something goes wrong.

I must admit I never got round to doing any of this either! With up to a dozen pedals… never had a failure, but if I had the only solution would have been to manually pull the cable and go straight into the amp, because it wasn't built for troubleshooting.

Yes that is a good idea. I already have this on the current board - its a Keeley looper that is the first and last in the chain so can bypass the whole damn thing! I'll keep that first then do the noise gate with whole looper in its send / return.

MikkiMcMurderer

Gassage said:

I really wouldn't do this. I totally wouldn't.

I'd be looking to reduce pedals to minimum first (I don't believe you'd ever need 2 diff flangers !) and then buffer with a push pull buffer like the Skydstrupt or Empress.

The amount of tone loss in those cable runs will be enormous. Take this from someone who once had a 14 bay LoopMaster built that was horrendous tonally.

Read this:

http://www.petecornish.co.uk/case_against_true_bypass.html

I know ;-) - but I guess I need to try it and make the mistake for myself, just like a toddler! As for all the cabling putting extra loss on the signal, it won't all be in line all the time only one or two pedals at a time which will be a massive improvement on what it is at the moment! I will keep the TU2 and the NS2 at the front of the chain to provide buffering / line driving - the true bypass thing is just to make sure any failures in the loops don't knock out the rest of the chain.

MikkiMcMurderer

By the way @Gassage - do you have any pics of your Loopmaster set up? Sounds fasintating and would be good to get your learnings...

Cheers!

Gassage

@mikkimcmurderer

Nah it was eons ago.