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Vigier Excalibur vs Suhr Modern vs ???

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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    edited September 2014
    Yeah guitarguitar Edinburgh is on Corstorphine Road - the Glasgow one has more guitars, both are good. 

    Just saw this which is in your budget:

    Ibanez AT10P-SB



    This demo always does it for me:

    Sounded even better playing it in the shop - might go try one tomorrow!

    The PRS limited Edition I got  (http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_guitars_detail.asp?stock=13120310401958) beat it, but I so wanted it as well. Now I have the PRS, a PRS Torero (selling it in classifieds as not keen on EMGs and Floyd, and want a maple neck), and Ibanez SA. Want to get rid of the last two and maybe get a Suhr, but it's sooo much money. There must be something AS good with a lower price... unfortunately not seen any used Pro S4's.
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  • BucketBucket Frets: 7751
    edited September 2014
    Maybe look for an Ibanez SV Prestige - no Floyd, seems to fit most of your other criteria and should be well under a grand. And it was made in Japan with fanatical attention to detail, like all Ibanez Prestige guitars. And it's sexy. Shame they've discontinued it.


    I would suggest a Tom Anderson Drop Top but that's only 22 frets and may be out of budget. Fabulous guitars though.

    TA has also recently come out with a similar 24-fret model called the Angel, which looks wonderful but again, is probably out of budget.
    - "I'm going to write a very stiff letter. A VERY stiff letter. On cardboard."
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  • I think you need to consider WHY you want the specs you have given.  Its you dream guitar obviously but they rule out so many options.  SS Frets alone rule out a lot.  why the 24 frets over 22? again takes out a lot.  The HSS config?  HH with splits are close enough and opens up a world of options, as would looking at a FB radius from 10" upwardes.

    Im not saying a 10", 22 fret board with silver/nickle frets and a HH config is what you should go for - thats compromising on all of the above specs, but if you consider WHY you want those specs - you might be surprised at what you would consider - so what would be available.

    Are you prepared to MOD guitars (particularly from a switching perspective)?  for instance is you wanted a neck SC, you can mod most HH guitars to do that if they dont already have that option.

    Something like a PRS Custom 24 (just as an example) can be had well within your budget - but apart from the 24 frets it fails on most counts - its a 10" board, HH, and not SS frets at least.  Ive seen Suhr Moderns go for around £1200-£1300, and dont all have the Floyd.  They are HH though, so splits need to be acceptable.

    I also appreciate the Ireland thinking after being in Belfast fro 8 years.  Its a PITA to get to try decent stuff.  I think the closest yor going to get to you stated specs, and your budget, without getting to try first are the Vigiers.  I did try a couple and wasnt that inspired I have to say.  I wouldn't swop one of my PRS for a Vigier - BUT thats just me.  Very well built, plays fantastic - just the vibe and tones wern't for me (at least not at the time).   Given the used prices, Id say its the best guitar you can get for your budget that fits all your specs.
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  • Split humbuckers have never sounded as good as single coils to me, just personally speaking. Good post, though! 
    Where have you seen Suhrs for £1200-1300? Would love to get that price!
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  • ElxElx Frets: 412
    I owned 2 Vigiers...No other guitars I've owned left me as cold as they did. Perfect craftsmanship, but something about them just didn't feel right...

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  • I think you need to consider WHY you want the specs you have given.  Its you dream guitar obviously but they rule out so many options.  SS Frets alone rule out a lot.  why the 24 frets over 22? again takes out a lot.  The HSS config?  HH with splits are close enough and opens up a world of options, as would looking at a FB radius from 10" upwardes.

    Im not saying a 10", 22 fret board with silver/nickle frets and a HH config is what you should go for - thats compromising on all of the above specs, but if you consider WHY you want those specs - you might be surprised at what you would consider - so what would be available.

    Are you prepared to MOD guitars (particularly from a switching perspective)?  for instance is you wanted a neck SC, you can mod most HH guitars to do that if they dont already have that option.

    Something like a PRS Custom 24 (just as an example) can be had well within your budget - but apart from the 24 frets it fails on most counts - its a 10" board, HH, and not SS frets at least.  Ive seen Suhr Moderns go for around £1200-£1300, and dont all have the Floyd.  They are HH though, so splits need to be acceptable.

    I also appreciate the Ireland thinking after being in Belfast fro 8 years.  Its a PITA to get to try decent stuff.  I think the closest yor going to get to you stated specs, and your budget, without getting to try first are the Vigiers.  I did try a couple and wasnt that inspired I have to say.  I wouldn't swop one of my PRS for a Vigier - BUT thats just me.  Very well built, plays fantastic - just the vibe and tones wern't for me (at least not at the time).   Given the used prices, Id say its the best guitar you can get for your budget that fits all your specs.
    A Custom 24 would be fine. The first 'serious' guitar I played was ten years ago when I was still a beginner buying an Epiphone Les Paul Custom. It played like butter and it completely changed my opinion on guitar. I prefer the subdued looks of Suhr and Tom Anderson, but I've seen some gorgeous Custom 24's. The 2014 finishes in particular are fucking awesome. World Guitars have a few I'd love to take home and do things to. They're just almost always over my budget by at least €200, and that's second-hand. There is a cool green one in Ireland for €2000, but I'm hoping to pay no more than €1500 (£1200), with the max being £1500 if I absolutely have to.

    I'm happy to sacrifice certain features, absolutely. The only thing I really don't want to sacrifice is acoustic loudness. PRS guitars are not known, from my understanding, to be loud or vibrant like a Tom Anderson or Don Grosh when played unplugged, but I could be wrong. I have a brilliant guitar that I love, but it sounds dead when unplugged and only comes alive when plugged in. It's an old Japanese Ibanez Artist from the 80's with the fantastic Super 70 pickups. It's useless for teaching because of that, but it's great for teh metalz.

    I am prepared to modify a guitar, yeah, and I don't mind standard Nickel Silver frets, flatter radii, dual humbuckers (I can always change that out and add coil taps/splits), etc. as long as the price is right. I want 24 frets so I can teach freely and play anything on, from shred to jazz. Again, if the right guitar crops up and it only has 22 frets, I can live with that.

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  • Elx said:
    I owned 2 Vigiers...No other guitars I've owned left me as cold as they did. Perfect craftsmanship, but something about them just didn't feel right...

    image





    image
    I've heard other people say that as well. The Premier Guitar review for the Ultra Blues model said the same thing, that it lacked character and balls.
    Split humbuckers have never sounded as good as single coils to me, just personally speaking. Good post, though! 
    Where have you seen Suhrs for £1200-1300? Would love to get that price!
    I agree. I've never tried a coil-tap or split that sounded anywhere near as good as a dedicated single coil.
    Elx said:
    Love ESP, but hate Floyd Rose.

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  • Acoustic loudness? For that, you'll need to test individual examples.

    Prs guitars have as much chance of ringing well as any other. That's just sample variation, and I am believer that it contributes noticeably to the plugged in sound. It's why I'd only ever buy unseen if it's a bargain. If I was looking to spend a grand or more, spending a hundred quid to travel to a good store for a day is worth saving the extra for.
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  • As far as guitars lacking balls and stuff like again, again, I reckon that's individual to each guitar. It is a comment often launched at mahogany or basswood body super strats with maple caps though (gave heard the same about most boutique strat builders). At the end of the day, they're all screwing or gluing a maple neck to a body. I don't believe a manufacturer can have inherently less "tone" or personality, unless they're using a unique construction technique. Most don't.
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2328
    Well, it has worked before. I've learned far more whilst actually playing the instruments than Googling the shit out of them, but at the same time, if I spend £300 on a trip, that's £300 less off my guitar budget. What I usually do is try to cram as much stuff in, like visiting Grandparents, going to gigs with long-time friends, meeting online friends. etc. That way at least I'm able to justify it and set aside the additional money, as well as the money for the guitar. Actually finding the money is hard enough, but justifying spending so much is just as challenging. :p
    Yep, agreed. That's generally what I've done in the past too, if I was on holiday somewhere and there was a good guitar shop nearby I tried to get to check it out at the same time.

    I've really liked the Vigiers I've tried, but their prices have shot up recently. Also they have a few spec things wrong which makes me not so keen to pay that kind of money- their nuts are 42mm (I prefer 43mm given the choice) and they generally seem to paint the back of the body black on their guitars with maple tops (I prefer the colour to match the top or at least be see-through/natural).

    I'm also not sure I'd say they're just as nice as things like Tylers. Granted, Tylers are a lot more money (or at least they were when I was trying them several years ago).
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  • Dave_Mc said:
    Yep, agreed. That's generally what I've done in the past too, if I was on holiday somewhere and there was a good guitar shop nearby I tried to get to check it out at the same time.

    I've really liked the Vigiers I've tried, but their prices have shot up recently. Also they have a few spec things wrong which makes me not so keen to pay that kind of money- their nuts are 42mm (I prefer 43mm given the choice) and they generally seem to paint the back of the body black on their guitars with maple tops (I prefer the colour to match the top or at least be see-through/natural).

    I'm also not sure I'd say they're just as nice as things like Tylers. Granted, Tylers are a lot more money (or at least they were when I was trying them several years ago).
    Tyler guitars are amazing looking. I really dig their vibe. Would love to test one out but I highly doubt I'd be able to find one in my price range so there isn't much point teasing myself.

    I personally don't mind the 42mm nut width. I can get used to it and don't feel like it restricts me in any way. In fact, in some ways I prefer it to the 43mm that Les Pauls usually come with.

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  • Acoustic loudness? For that, you'll need to test individual examples.

    Prs guitars have as much chance of ringing well as any other. That's just sample variation, and I am believer that it contributes noticeably to the plugged in sound. It's why I'd only ever buy unseen if it's a bargain. If I was looking to spend a grand or more, spending a hundred quid to travel to a good store for a day is worth saving the extra for.
    Yeah, this is my worry. It makes buying used really hard, unless I find one local to me here in Ireland, as I'd have no way to try it out beforehand. Usually you can be safe with companies that proclaim their guitars are consistently vibrant by design like Tom Anderson, Suhr and Grosh, but with Gibson, PRS, Jackson, Ibanez, Mayones, I'd say it's more of a hit or miss and depends entirely on that particular combination of wood and neck joint.
    As far as guitars lacking balls and stuff like again, again, I reckon that's individual to each guitar. It is a comment often launched at mahogany or basswood body super strats with maple caps though (gave heard the same about most boutique strat builders). At the end of the day, they're all screwing or gluing a maple neck to a body. I don't believe a manufacturer can have inherently less "tone" or personality, unless they're using a unique construction technique. Most don't.
    Well, I guess we're getting into the whole 'mojo' debate where some guitars feel more special to one and less to another. I can safely resell a Suhr if I bought it at a good price, but other guitars might be more challenging. A Tom Anderson will sell, as will a Vigier, but I might lose some pocket change on that one.

    http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suhr-modern-satin-cherry-/131302193033?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item1e92387789

    I'm going to keep my eyes on this one, but I would only be able to ship it to a friend or family members house in the UK and then have them ship it over to me or pick it up myself if I was over some time visiting. Fucking pain in the ass, but whatever. It might be worth it. I could easily resell a €1200 USA-made Suhr in perfect nick.

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  • or just ask the seller if he will ship to you?
    The Bigsby was the first successful design of what is now called a whammy bar or tremolo arm, although vibrato is the technically correct term for the musical effect it produces. In standard usage, tremolo is a rapid fluctuation of the volume of a note, while vibrato is a fluctuation in pitch. The origin of this nonstandard usage of the term by electric guitarists is attributed to Leo Fender, who also used the term “vibrato” to refer to what is really a tremolo effect.
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  • carloscarlos Frets: 3426
    I own a Vigier. Biggest things you have to take into consideration are:
    1 - do you like zero frets? 
    2 - do you like not having a truss rod so having the same amount of relief forever?
    3 - resale value is crap so buy used
    4 - some of the pickup choices don't really match the "premiumness" of the instrument but YMMV

    Having said that, they are amazing for travel because of the graphite neck - the tuning stability is amazing. Character and balls is psycho-acoustics waffle so give it a try yourself.
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  • or just ask the seller if he will ship to you?
    "Delivery is ParcelForce 48 to Mainland UK Only no exceptions"

    Dude won't even ship to Northern Ireland. I really don't understand why, but maybe he's experienced dodgy cats from some random place and doesn't want the hassle. Most eBay listings are comprised of this. But in all fairness to him, I should just send him a message to be sure. He could be a lovely dude and simply wants to keep it... simple, which I can understand.
    I own a Vigier. Biggest things you have to take into consideration are:
    1 - do you like zero frets? 
    2 - do you like not having a truss rod so having the same amount of relief forever?
    3 - resale value is crap so buy used
    4 - some of the pickup choices don't really match the "premiumness" of the instrument but YMMV

    Having said that, they are amazing for travel because of the graphite neck - the tuning stability is amazing. Character and balls is psycho-acoustics waffle so give it a try yourself.
    No experience with the zero nut, either on Vigier or on Gretsch, but I like the idea of low action and a stable neck. With that said, I do like to experiment with bigger strings from time to time.

    I could never afford a Vigier brand-new. They're way out of my price range. Pickups can always be swapped if they don't quite cut the mustard, especially if the price of the guitar is only £1000.

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  • Mate...I think those Suhrs are amazing...at a gearfest recently i saw a few up close and they look the part and sound great.

     

    what about charvel's...didnt they make one for Guthrie Govan which was similar to his old Suhr guitars...similar specs to what your looking for I think. Not sure if you'll find a sig model, but they may have a production model version of it.

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  • Split humbuckers have never sounded as good as single coils to me, just personally speaking. Good post, though! 
    Where have you seen Suhrs for £1200-1300? Would love to get that price!
    True - my PRS split is slightly less full and slightly toppier than my strat - my Suhr is even more that way.

    As for the price, I was looking and found a used, but in excellent condition Suhr Modern M5, with the Gotoh not Floyd trem.  Bengal burst.  £1300 on EBay, £1200 on Gumtree - and after EMail he would take £1100.  I ended up with another guitar as Im not that keen on the colour and really wanted the Floyd.  Ended up paying £1350 for a used one from Peach.  Had to haggle though.
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  • thomasross20thomasross20 Frets: 4423
    edited September 2014
    Link to this Suhr...?? EDIT - I see it... unfortunately it's rosewood fingerboard (I'm not into that).

    What is zero fret all about!?


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