productive day

grungebob

Before today I'd never bothered to learn anythin theory wise and honestly didn't think I needed to, so whilst this won't sound like a big deal to many of you today I learnt minor pentatonic for all 5 positions (I think)

octatonic

Nice one. Now take it through all the keys.

grungebob

Thanks, Can't I just do that by changing the starting position?

octatonic

grungebob said:

Thanks, Can't I just do that by changing the starting position?

Sort of- it is getting the notes in your head that takes time. For instance, what is the 3rd note in the second position of Db pent minor?

monquixote

Indeed you can.

Good work that man. 

I use the minor pentatonic as the basis for all the other scales I know. You will be pleased to know that as a consequence you now also know the major pentatonics in all the positions as well. 

grungebob

Cool. Well see I couldn't tell you the note but I could point to it :-). So the major will be easier to learn now then? I will eventually like to learn all the notes on the board but to be honest it doesn't sound like fun.

monquixote

You already know all the major pentatonic shapes you just don't know that you do. 

The first position of the major pentatonic is the second position of the minor pentatonic. So when you are playing an A minor, it's also a C major etc. 

ddlooping

grungebob said:

Well see I couldn't tell you the note but I could point to it :-).

I personally think that it's much more important to try and learn how it sounds in relation to the other notes of the scale.
Its name comes second, far behind.

And congrats.

Barney

Great stuff ...it will give you a good background to learn the modes...just add the 2 extra notes needed to give the minor modes..in all 5 postions

grungebob

You've lost me on modes and all thats, baby steps eh!?

monquixote

grungebob said:

You've lost me on modes and all thats, baby steps eh!?

Essentially what you've learned gives you all of the major and minor pentatonic shapes all over the fretboard. 

Adding two extra notes to those patterns gives you every single one of the standard modes in every position. 

daveww

As well as the 5 positions learn each octave going up or down from the route on its own.  That'll give you some more useful and moveable positions.  It's also worth learning to go through two and three octaves.

Barney

Its a good idea to Learn the pentatonics on single strings as well ..it will really open the full fret board up ...trying to visualise the intervals on each string..

jaygtr

monquixote;34736" said:

Indeed you can.

Good work that man. 

I use the minor pentatonic as the basis for all the other scales I know. You will be pleased to know that as a consequence you now also know the major pentatonics in all the positions as well. 

I'm glad you base everything around the minor pentatonic, I do too, I just thought it was wrong for some reason.
It's just what I learnt first.

frankus

octatonic said:

Sort of- it is getting the notes in your head that takes time. For instance, what is the 3rd note in the second position of Db pent minor?

Steven... or Steve if you're really familliar with this stuff.

Some people say Ste but he hates that and they're bullshitters, making out they know more than they do.

monquixote

It's just so ingrained for me it's a good basis for everything else.

 

I never really got the hang of using modes in the classic sense though I play in a way that sounds quite jazzy modal to a lot of people. 

I tend to think more in intervals and I think of the major and minor 6th and 7th as being fairly interchangeable depending on what fits so I tend to randomly flick between Major/Natural Minor and Dorian/Mixolydian/Jazz Minor/Bebop type ideas depending on what I'm hearing. 

When I'm playing major I'm often playing the same way just using a different 3rd. 

The more exotic modes with different 4ths and 5ths tend to throw me a bit because they don't fit in as well with the things I understand how to do.

jaygtr

Barney;35366" said:

Its a good idea to Learn the pentatonics on single strings as well ..it will really open the full fret board up ...trying to visualise the intervals on each string..

Doing this also helps you to stop just playing it in boxes

grungebob

I'm going to stick with the minor I've learnt first before moving on to others, I do this for everything. I want to be able to instinctively be able to use and abuse the learnt info before muddying it up with new stuff.

monquixote

Very sensible 

I learned a load of modes when I was a teenager. Spent ages doing it and having done it had no idea what to do with them. 

Much better idea to learn a bit of theory, use it until it's so internalised it's not "theory" it's just something you do and then move on to something else. 

frankus

Modes are really really easy to describe to do it you'll need 7 pints of Stella and a friend with a tape recorder.

This is a relative view of modes - that is where the key centre is the root note.

Step 1. your friend starts the tape recorder says "lydian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate belief.
Step 2. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "ionian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.
Step 3. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "mixolydian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.
Step 4. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "dorian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.
Step 5. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "aeolian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.
Step 6. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "phrygian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.
Step 7. your friend stops the tape while you drink a pint then restarts it and says "locrian" and asks you to talk about your most passionate beliefs.

Now if you listen back to this when you're not hungover (depending on your alcohol tolerance during the test) you'll hear you make less sense in terms of language as the beers flow, your adherence to English norms of intonation in sentences drift, you sound increasingly disonnant moving from light to morose to just plain obscure and a bit disturbing and possibly incomprehensible.

If you don't have time for this, try and arrange for a friend to do this at one of the forum meet ups.

ddlooping