The F1 thread

boogieman

From comments doing the rounds, Honda have got things better sorted for next season. Hardly a good advert for them this year though, the PR people must cringe every time the Maclaren retires yet again with mechanical issues.

Fretwired

boogieman said:

From comments doing the rounds, Honda have got things better sorted for next season. Hardly a good advert for them this year though, the PR people must cringe every time the Maclaren retires yet again with mechanical issues.

Unless its a McLaren tactic to embarrass Honda into improvements .. ;-)

Looks like Red Bull may get Honda engines - Big Ron is trying to veto it but it looks like he'll lose ..

Heartfeltdawn

boogieman said:From comments doing the rounds, Honda have got things better sorted for next season. Hardly a good advert for them this year though, the PR people must cringe every time the Maclaren retires yet again with mechanical issues.

If the Johnnie Walker sponsorship goes as has been reported by numerous sources, that's another £15 million out of the kitty. Santander are another sponsor reported to be going elsewhere. Prior to the announcement of Button resigning, Honda already supplied free engines, paid half the driver salaries, and throw up £25 million in sponsorship. Much worry in Woking. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

boogieman said:From comments doing the rounds, Honda have got things better sorted for next season. Hardly a good advert for them this year though, the PR people must cringe every time the Maclaren retires yet again with mechanical issues.

If the Johnnie Walker sponsorship goes as has been reported by numerous sources, that's another £15 million out of the kitty. Santander are another sponsor reported to be going elsewhere. Prior to the announcement of Button resigning, Honda already supplied free engines, paid half the driver salaries, and throw up £25 million in sponsorship. Much worry in Woking. 

Could be why Honda are continuing to talk to Red Bull. I can't see Ron last much longer. He's not popular with the major shareholders.

Majorscale

Just as well Ron has a successful road car business to fund the team! Funny too that the road cars have a McLaren designed engine and they seem to go alright...I bet Ron wishes that he could shoehorn a P1 drivetrain into the F1 cars!

Fretwired

Majorscale said:

Just as well Ron has a successful road car business to fund the team! Funny too that the road cars have a McLaren designed engine and they seem to go alright...I bet Ron wishes that he could shoehorn a P1 drivetrain into the F1 cars!

It's a separate company - it doesn't directly fund the F1 team.

chillidoggy

Ron seems to be leading a charmed life, I cannot understand how they haven't booted him into touch.

As for Red Bull and Honda, somehow I can't see that happening, I reckon they're more likely to eat a bit of humble pie, and continue with Renault.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

As for Red Bull and Honda, somehow I can't see that happening, I reckon they're more likely to eat a bit of humble pie, and continue with Renault.

Bernie to the rescue. Apparently Ron has a right of veto BUT Honda have signed a contract with the FIA which states they have to supply two teams with engines from 2016 and Bernie wants them to supply Red Bull. McLaren are also short of cash so I smell a deal.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121620

chillidoggy

McLaren has a contract with Honda, but with Big Ron having a veto on them supplying any other team, but they have a contract with FIA to supply more than one team if required?

Oh dear. Someone didn't think that one through.

57Deluxe

Do you think ol Jense and Alio are driving around in their contracturally/complementary Honda Jazz's in their free time...???

http://www.car-transplants.co.uk/news-and-information/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Jazz3.jpg

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

Bernie to the rescue. Apparently Ron has a right of veto BUT Honda have signed a contract with the FIA which states they have to supply two teams with engines from 2016 and Bernie wants them to supply Red Bull. McLaren are also short of cash so I smell a deal.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121620

And it wouldn't take much thought to imagine that Honda really need a second team to sell engines to and that some of that money will end up going to McLaren as Honda sponsorship dough to shore them up through 2016. 

Heartfeltdawn

57Deluxe said:

Do you think ol Jense and Alio are driving around in their contracturally/complementary Honda Jazz's in their free time...???

http://www.car-transplants.co.uk/news-and-information/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Jazz3.jpg

The way Fernando's season has gone in the last few races, he may as well turn up on the grid in a Jazz. He'll last longer before retiring and go quicker. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

Bernie to the rescue. Apparently Ron has a right of veto BUT Honda have signed a contract with the FIA which states they have to supply two teams with engines from 2016 and Bernie wants them to supply Red Bull. McLaren are also short of cash so I smell a deal.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121620

And it wouldn't take much thought to imagine that Honda really need a second team to sell engines to and that some of that money will end up going to McLaren as Honda sponsorship dough to shore them up through 2016. 

My thoughts as well .. McLaren need another team to help with development and keep costs down.

boogieman

Fretwired;840718" said:

chillidoggy said:

As for Red Bull and Honda, somehow I can't see that happening, I reckon they're more likely to eat a bit of humble pie, and continue with Renault.





Bernie to the rescue. Apparently Ron has a right of veto BUT Honda have signed a contract with the FIA which states they have to supply two teams with engines from 2016 and Bernie wants them to supply Red Bull. McLaren are also short of cash so I smell a deal.



http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/121620

Is there anything that Bernie doesn't influence in this sport? I sincerely hope the poisonous little maggot dies or is forced to retire soon. :-S

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

My thoughts as well .. McLaren need another team to help with development and keep costs down.

McLaren get their engines free from Honda so they don't worry about costs. Honda on the other hand do have to worry. Last month they said that they didn't want a second team as it would mean having to increase their costs through having to employ more staff. Because the Honda power unit has been such a failure, both Honda and McLaren have been backed into this difficult corner. 

Crap performances mean existing sponsors are leaving and attracting decent new sponsors is close to impossible. Honda have already clearly been tapped up for more money in order to retain Button so their costs are up. With Santander and JW leaving a gap of some £20 million in income plus future payments regarding Constructors Championship finishing position being reduced, another source of cash has to be found. Now Joe Saward says a Mercedes engine deal is some $26 million, comfortably cheaper than Renault. Reports are out that Honda were wanting quite a bit for any engine deal with Red Bull so let's say they're going for $30 million, around £19 million. If that is split half-half between cash to Honda for development and staff and some profit, and the other half to McLaren as additional Honda sponsorship, then it still doesn't do much to shore up the substantial drop in revenue from JW and Santander leaving, let alone the reduced CC position payments in the future. 

Martin Whitmarsh must look on this entire situation with a huge smirk on his face. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

Fretwired said:

My thoughts as well .. McLaren need another team to help with development and keep costs down.

McLaren get their engines free from Honda so they don't worry about costs. Honda on the other hand do have to worry. Last month they said that they didn't want a second team as it would mean having to increase their costs through having to employ more staff. Because the Honda power unit has been such a failure, both Honda and McLaren have been backed into this difficult corner. 

Crap performances mean existing sponsors are leaving and attracting decent new sponsors is close to impossible. Honda have already clearly been tapped up for more money in order to retain Button so their costs are up. With Santander and JW leaving a gap of some £20 million in income plus future payments regarding Constructors Championship finishing position being reduced, another source of cash has to be found. Now Joe Saward says a Mercedes engine deal is some $26 million, comfortably cheaper than Renault. Reports are out that Honda were wanting quite a bit for any engine deal with Red Bull so let's say they're going for $30 million, around £19 million. If that is split half-half between cash to Honda for development and staff and some profit, and the other half to McLaren as additional Honda sponsorship, then it still doesn't do much to shore up the substantial drop in revenue from JW and Santander leaving, let alone the reduced CC position payments in the future. 

Martin Whitmarsh must look on this entire situation with a huge smirk on his face. 

McLaren get £25 million from Honda plus £16 million towards drivers salaries. Honda don't actually gives McLaren the cash - they give them engines. Honda are still talking to RB as they are keen to supply engines to another team to help with the development costs. Bernie must by crapping himself as Honda have shown how hard it is to get a decent engine designed which will put off others from entering. The Renault/Lotus deal hasn't been done so Renault could still walk away from F1 as could Honda if the bad PR continues.

chillidoggy

Heartfeltdawn said:

57Deluxe said:

Do you think ol Jense and Alio are driving around in their contracturally/complementary Honda Jazz's in their free time...???

http://www.car-transplants.co.uk/news-and-information/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/Jazz3.jpg

The way Fernando's season has gone in the last few races, he may as well turn up on the grid in a Jazz. He'll last longer before retiring and go quicker. 

Not only that, he's pretty sure to at least finish the race.

chillidoggy

Just imagining the scene in the Red Bull boardroom -

Mateschitz: "So, let's see now: We have no engine supplier for next year, and the only one on offer is an unreliable, gutless piece of shite?"

The rest of the board: "Yup, that's about the size of it."

They're fresh out of options. They either chuck it in and go down the pub, or they try to get a Honda engine deal and probably end up even further down the grid than they are now, which ironically is the reason Mateschitz kicked Renault into touch in the first place.

Heartfeltdawn

It's a 'engines plus cash' deal. £41 million in 'crap engines' would be rather hard to put onto the balance sheet!

It's pretty clear there are a lot of problems in McLaren. Kevin Magnussen getting dumped by email on his birthday rather sums up the approach under Ron. Fair play to Kevin for mentioning Aki Hintsa in that interview, a very nice touch and the sort of humane element that really seems to have vanished since Whitmarsh left. 

And if the humane has been jetisoned for the corporate, then a big round of applause to Ron for turning down Johnnie Walker's title sponsor offer at the end of 2013 as he thought £43 million a season was too small. If Ron were a football manager, then he's showing the sort of nous for leadership that should get him in at Leeds United... 

chillidoggy

Heartfeltdawn said:

It's a 'engines plus cash' deal. £41 million in 'crap engines' would be rather hard to put onto the balance sheet!

It's pretty clear there are a lot of problems in McLaren. Kevin Magnussen getting dumped by email on his birthday rather sums up the approach under Ron. Fair play to Kevin for mentioning Aki Hintsa in that interview, a very nice touch and the sort of humane element that really seems to have vanished since Whitmarsh left. 

And if the humane has been jetisoned for the corporate, then a big round of applause to Ron for turning down Johnnie Walker's title sponsor offer at the end of 2013 as he thought £43 million a season was too small. If Ron were a football manager, then he's showing the sort of nous for leadership that should get him in at Leeds United... 

I suspect the humane side of things went out at those levels a while ago. Sadly, I just don't think they can afford to be 'nice' these days. F1's a business.