The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

boogieman said:

stickyfiddle said:

TimmyO said:

Fretwired said:

Liberty Global (they own Liberty Media which now owns F1) have bid to takeover ITV. I wonder if F1 could return to ITV?

Fine by me as long as they take the Sky commentary team with them 

Yeah, that would work for me. And no ads during races (please!), which would presumably no issue as the point would be growing the audience more than maximising revenue for CVC...

Much as I don't want to have to pay to watch, I hated ITV's F1 coverage. Their "You won't miss a thing" strapline should've been pursued through the courts for misleading advertising. They always seemed to go for an ad break just at the moment someone had done a crucial overtake/crashed/broken down. 

Yep, absolutely. My hope this time is that because of Brawn and Mr ESPN (whose name escapes me) they'll have it in the contract that the sport bit must actually be shown properly, in full, just as it is with football, rugby, tennis, etc. Otherwise you're just selling yourself short. This is especially true in the context of live timing feeds, and twitter, etc

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Could this be why McLaren is keeping its options open - new engines for 2021. Are Honda really going to throw serious cash at an engine that will be obsolete? Good news - VW are interested.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128744

The current engines were always going to have their final season in 2020. What happens in 2021 has always had a question mark. 

Fretwired

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Could this be why McLaren is keeping its options open - new engines for 2021. Are Honda really going to throw serious cash at an engine that will be obsolete? Good news - VW are interested.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128744

The current engines were always going to have their final season in 2020. What happens in 2021 has always had a question mark. 

I know that .. I think the assumption was any new regs would  be based on the existing hybrid tech. That's now not the case as the new owners want cheaper, simpler engines and more noise. Apparently VW have been involved with talks and are keen. McLaren are working with BMW on new road car engines - I wonder if they may be interested. This is all about getting new teams and engine manufacturers into F1.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Could this be why McLaren is keeping its options open - new engines for 2021. Are Honda really going to throw serious cash at an engine that will be obsolete? Good news - VW are interested.

http://classic.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/128744

The current engines were always going to have their final season in 2020. What happens in 2021 has always had a question mark. 

I know that .. I think the assumption was any new regs would  be based on the existing hybrid tech. That's now not the case as the new owners want cheaper, simpler engines and more noise. Apparently VW have been involved with talks and are keen. McLaren are working with BMW on new road car engines - I wonder if they may be interested. This is all about getting new teams and engine manufacturers into F1.

VW are the ones that led everyone else up the garden path for the current engines then bailed at the last minute and put their engine in a WEC LMP1 car.

Hopefully we will see some V6TTs with no fuel limits, no hybrids and no longevity rules.

Regarding money, every race team since the invention of the second car ever made has spent their entire budget, if they save £5m on an engine they'll spend it on aero or even hospitality.

Personally I quite liked the V6T-H arms race between the manufacturers, petrol tech has made enormous leaps off the back of this, and now that Ferrari seem to have caught Mercedes we should be in for a cracker of a season.

harpdoodle

Hi.....ok. I am new here, a guitarist besides other instruments and a BIG racing and F1 fan and trackside visitor. What I have read tho' .....seems you are all quite 'tech' ....which suits me !!

i am tempted to put £10 on Vettel to win the Championship this year. 

Boromedic

Might not be a bad shout but difficult to say off the back of a street race. China should give us a better idea of how things shake will shake out through the season. I think it will be Lewis again but it will be a decent fight through the season. Might come down to reliability and track position again though.

holnrew

Don't discount the red bulls either, I don't think they can win the championships, but with the upgrades coming down the line they can make the fight tighter

sweepy

I wouldn't forget Verstappen, I have a sneaking feeling that he'll win Monaco this season 

Fretwired

i am tempted to put £10 on Vettel to win the Championship this year. 

Not sure - if you recall Vettel should have won last year, but a strategy cock up cost him victory; it could be argued that a strategy cock-up cost Hamilton. I think Oz suits the Ferrari. Let's see what happens in China.

Fretwired

Oh dear .. not good for McLaren ....


Honda Formula 1 chief Yusuke Hasegawa has admitted the Japanese manufacturer thought developing the engine technology required to catch its rivals this season was "too easy".

Hasegawa said at the launch of the McLaren MCL32 he thought Honda's new engine would match Mercedes' 2016 power levels by start of this season, but it has endured a disastrous start to 2017, lacking performance and reliability.

Neither McLaren driver suffered an engine failure in the Australian Grand Prix, but Hasegawa admitted the current engine is down on power and says Honda underestimated the difficulty of finding more power without introducing new problems.

"As a matter of fact we were thinking [it was] too easy, and it was too difficult to achieve the new technology - that was my mistake," Hasegawa told Autosport.

"We did some good progress in the mono-cylinder on the dyno, but as soon as we complete the V6 engine we had many issues.

"What we achieved in mono-cylinder is at a very good level, but when we transfer exactly the same specification to the V6 engine it doesn't work.

"We are very disappointed. But it was too late that we noticed that - at Christmas.

"After we understand the issues this was the time we need to confirm the final specification - we needed to have some compromise."

Honda has encountered further problems with instability and vibrations since the engine was installed and run on track.

"We have huge vibrations," added Hasegawa, who says Honda's new engine currently produces "almost the same power" as the 2016 unit.

"The only thing I can tell is that on the dyno we didn't have such a big issue - when we have a gearbox, driveshaft and tyre it has some resonance.

"I'm not blaming the chassis; we have to realise the situation on the dyno as well."

Honda is working on an update package for the engine, which Hasegawa hopes to implement by May's Spanish GP at Barcelona.

"If we find a good solution we need to change the engine for round five or six, so I really want to update our specification before then, or to that time," he said.

"We have already achieved some good level of performance with the mono-cylinder engine. The thing we have to do is transfer that technology to the V6.

"Although we still have to improve that, we have some confidence we can achieve that level."

stickyfiddle

They're fucked. And with only another 3 seasons of the current engines get binned I wouldn't be surprised if they walk at the end of the season cos they clearly aren't going to sort it out in time to recoup ANY investment.

I can't believe they didn't get a full V6 on a dyno until frickin CHRISTMAS. What were they doing all last year? It's actually baffling. The modern Honda company just hasn't got a clue how to compete in motorsport. 

Fretwired

By Spain Mercedes and Ferrari will have improved their cars/engines. Honda are playing catchup and losing. If Honda bail then McLaren will be screwed. Honda will have to compensate McLaren, but with such a poor track record they will not be able to get any decent sponsors.

I bet the board wish they'd listened to Ron years ago and built their own engine with Ricardo. Zak Brown has ruled it out for now but left the door open.

holnrew

If they could develop the engine alongside the car that would be much better. Sounds liked they need new management anyway so why not manufacture them in the UK?

Fretwired

holnrew said:

If they could develop the engine alongside the car that would be much better. Sounds liked they need new management anyway so why not manufacture them in the UK?

I think McLaren F1 are basically broke without Honda ...

stickyfiddle

holnrew said:

If they could develop the engine alongside the car that would be much better. Sounds liked they need new management anyway so why not manufacture them in the UK?

This is half their problem. Honda corporate are apparently obsessed with getting their own people in Japan to learn how to do it themselves rather than just hiring knowledgeable people (as RB did with Mario Illien) and letting the race team have full autonomy to do whatever it takes without any delay...

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

holnrew said:

If they could develop the engine alongside the car that would be much better. Sounds liked they need new management anyway so why not manufacture them in the UK?

This is half their problem. Honda corporate are apparently obsessed with getting their own people in Japan to learn how to do it themselves rather than just hiring knowledgeable people (as RB did with Mario Illien) and letting the race team have full autonomy to do whatever it takes without any delay...

I misunderstood the question .. Ron wanted Honda to use British expertise - the Merc engine is British - but Honda put an inexperienced young engineer in charge. As the quote above states Honda seemed to think it would be easy ... there will come a point where, if they can't improve the engine, they will do damage limitation (brand-wise) and can F1.

goldtop

Honda F1 now recuiting engineers in Britain:

https://twitter.com/Rowlinson_F1/status/849596572170113024

holnrew

Hopefully that's good news and they aren't just going to pull out

Fretwired

goldtop said:

Honda F1 now recuiting engineers in Britain:

https://twitter.com/Rowlinson_F1/status/849596572170113024

With respect that doesn't amount to much. Look at what the Merc setup has in the UK. Mercedes AMG High Performance Powertrains (previously known as Ilmor Engineering) employs some of the best engine designers in the world. It's a serious investment. Honda are pissing in the wind.

boogieman

Scuse my ignorance and possible dumb question here, but is it normal to develop the engine like that? I'm taking "mono cylinder" to mean using a single cylinder to work out the fuel and air swirl, how the combustion works out, valve port sizes, cylinder temperatures,  yadda yadda. Is that right? Surely it's never going to behave the same way when built up as a whole engine?