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  • hotpothotpot Frets: 845
    The Chinese will put a knock off F1 engine in the back of that Manor & still beat Honda.
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • chillidoggychillidoggy Frets: 17136
    hotpot said:
    The Chinese will put a knock off F1 engine in the back of that Manor & still beat Honda.

    I could beat Honda in my Mondeo. At least I'd guarantee to finish the race!


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  • chillidoggychillidoggy Frets: 17136
    Fretwired said:

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.

    I have to admire his tenacity. Or is it the $40 million reasons for him to get out of bed in the morning?


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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 1937
    Fretwired said:

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.
    Even worse he was courted by Red Bull for 2009 and on, but he had his sights on Ferrari. Some might say karma though after the way he handled 2007.
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  • HoofHoof Frets: 491
    Octafish said:
    Fretwired said:

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.
    Even worse he was courted by Red Bull for 2009 and on, but he had his sights on Ferrari. Some might say karma though after the way he handled 2007.
    Although I don't believe in such nonsense I have to agree with the sentiment. Alonso's wrecked career has been Aonso's making. While it's interesting to see F1 drivers in the Indy 500 I can't help but think these are quite desperate moves. He's been right at the centre of the two biggest scandals in recent F1 history and has expressed no shame or remorse for either. 

    While his talent is undeniable, his self-appointed status as the greatest of his generation is not justified. He won two world championships almost a decade and a half ago in an illegal car in 2004 and won a contest of tyre preservation during the most boring season of all time in 2005. Of the current drivers, Vettel and Hamilton can be counted as among the all-time greats. Fernando just isn't on that level IMHO.
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited June 2017
    I disagree with that on many levels, Alonso and Hamilton are the class of the field with Vettel very close behind. Whilst I agree he has mastered his own downfall in many ways, Fernando is undoubtedly an all time great. His lack of championships was comparable to Lewis until Mercedes dominated, but both could hustle a weaker car into the podium spots with relative ease. Vettel struggles if a car isn't to his liking hence not quite on a par.

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • HoofHoof Frets: 491
    Boromedic said:
    • I disagree with that on many levels, Alonso and Hamilton are the class of the field with Vettel very close behind. Whilst I agree he has mastered his own downfall in many ways, Fernando is undoubtedly an all time great. His lack of championships was comparable to Lewis until Mercedes dominated, but both could hustle a weaker car into the podium spots with relative ease. Vettel struggles if a car isn't to his liking hence not quite on a par.
    As much as Vettels whining and tantrums annoy me, 4 world titles and 45 wins and 47 poles cannot be denied as evidence of greatness. Career management is another element of it. Vettel has been smarter with that. Alonso has realised himself that to be one of the greats, his only chance is now the triple crown as he'll never win another F1 title. Possibly not even another race. His only hope is that he can get in at Mercedes if Hamilton retires this year. Would Mercedes want him? They might feel they've ggot enough of their talent to choose from, epecially if Bottas continues to develop. I've yet to see evidence that Hamilton is really that great at hustling a weaker car. Look at Monaco this year; he lost his way on setup during practice an couldn't get it back , once the shoulders drop or something gets under his skin, that's it. Alonso definitely has the edge there, I'll give him that.
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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 1937
    edited June 2017
    Hoof said:
    Octafish said:
    Fretwired said:

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.
    Even worse he was courted by Red Bull for 2009 and on, but he had his sights on Ferrari. Some might say karma though after the way he handled 2007.
    Although I don't believe in such nonsense I have to agree with the sentiment. Alonso's wrecked career has been Aonso's making. While it's interesting to see F1 drivers in the Indy 500 I can't help but think these are quite desperate moves. He's been right at the centre of the two biggest scandals in recent F1 history and has expressed no shame or remorse for either. 

    While his talent is undeniable, his self-appointed status as the greatest of his generation is not justified. He won two world championships almost a decade and a half ago in an illegal car in 2004 and won a contest of tyre preservation during the most boring season of all time in 2005. Of the current drivers, Vettel and Hamilton can be counted as among the all-time greats. Fernando just isn't on that level IMHO.
    Indy 500, desperate? It's a massive race in the US and highly respected around the world. Legends such as Graham Hill, Jim Clark and designer Colin Chapman thought it was worth a punt.

    Alonso didn't win the Championship in 2004, it was 05 and 06. I assume you're refering to the banning of the mass-damper in 06? The FIA rather suspiciously (some would argue to help Schumacher/Ferrari) decided mid-season it was moveable aerodynamic device and banned it, Then there was the very dodgy penalty at Monza 06 where Alonso was penalised for supposedly holding up Massa on his qualy run, even though he was half way up the road.

    I'm no Alonso fan boy and he screwed his own career somewhat, but I think you're being a bit unfair with your assesment. Let's not forget Vettel had a car that was glued to the road with downforce for 4 years, a weak teammate (to whom he almost lost the 2010 championship) and rather flexible wings (FIA had to up the tests to detect such 'moveable aerodynamic devices'). When faced with a less stable car and a more competitive temamate in 2014, Vettel was handed his arse and lost his head a number of times, as he did last year when he had a less than competitive car. I see nothing that suggest Alonso isn't on Hamilton or Vettel's level.

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  • OctafishOctafish Frets: 1937
    From what I remember about Alfas, they're even more unreliable than the Honda engine. You need to tow a trailer to put all the bits that drop off in.
    That was over 30 years ago and it would be a rebadged Ferrari anyway, although Ferrari have gone through periods of very poor reliability. I think it's highly unlikely Alfa will return anyway, very likely to be McLaren/Mercedes next year.
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    edited June 2017
    Hoof said:
    Boromedic said:
    • I disagree with that on many levels, Alonso and Hamilton are the class of the field with Vettel very close behind. Whilst I agree he has mastered his own downfall in many ways, Fernando is undoubtedly an all time great. His lack of championships was comparable to Lewis until Mercedes dominated, but both could hustle a weaker car into the podium spots with relative ease. Vettel struggles if a car isn't to his liking hence not quite on a par.
    As much as Vettels whining and tantrums annoy me, 4 world titles and 45 wins and 47 poles cannot be denied as evidence of greatness. Career management is another element of it. Vettel has been smarter with that. Alonso has realised himself that to be one of the greats, his only chance is now the triple crown as he'll never win another F1 title. Possibly not even another race. His only hope is that he can get in at Mercedes if Hamilton retires this year. Would Mercedes want him? They might feel they've ggot enough of their talent to choose from, epecially if Bottas continues to develop. I've yet to see evidence that Hamilton is really that great at hustling a weaker car. Look at Monaco this year; he lost his way on setup during practice an couldn't get it back , once the shoulders drop or something gets under his skin, that's it. Alonso definitely has the edge there, I'll give him that.
    What Octafish said with regards to Alonso, as for Lewis after he won the title in 2008 he frequently put his Mclaren and later the 2013 Mercedes in positions higher than the car in theory could achieve. Psychologically he isn't as strong as Vettel or Alonso but he is the fastest driver on the grid all other things being equal. The Monaco analogy is slightly flawed somewhat due to the nature of the circuit and parc ferme regs on set up changes. The Merc this year appears to have a narrow operating window and they went the wrong way with the setup.

    As for Vettel again see what Octafish wrote, he has gone up in my estimation over the years but the season against Danny Ric in a RB that wasn't suited to his driving style showed him up. Whilst not quite Giancarlo Fisichella he still has issues when the car doesn't suit his driving style. More so than the 2 we are comparing him against.

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • HoofHoof Frets: 491
    Octafish said:
    Hoof said:
    Octafish said:
    Fretwired said:

    I had high hopes for Baku, the circuit looked to be great at first look. But the race itself was a snooze-fest.

    Alonso and Transit Van Door will never finish the race.

    Alonso must be the unluckiest guy in F1. Apparently Ross offered him a seat at Brawn. He laughed and turned it down and Button won the F1 championship and the team the Constructors F1 Championship.
    Even worse he was courted by Red Bull for 2009 and on, but he had his sights on Ferrari. Some might say karma though after the way he handled 2007.
    Although I don't believe in such nonsense I have to agree with the sentiment. Alonso's wrecked career has been Aonso's making. While it's interesting to see F1 drivers in the Indy 500 I can't help but think these are quite desperate moves. He's been right at the centre of the two biggest scandals in recent F1 history and has expressed no shame or remorse for either. 

    While his talent is undeniable, his self-appointed status as the greatest of his generation is not justified. He won two world championships almost a decade and a half ago in an illegal car in 2004 and won a contest of tyre preservation during the most boring season of all time in 2005. Of the current drivers, Vettel and Hamilton can be counted as among the all-time greats. Fernando just isn't on that level IMHO.
    Indy 500, desperate? It's a massive race in the US and highly respected around the world. Legends such as Graham Hill, Jim Clark and designer Colin Chapman thought it was worth a punt.

    Alonso didn't win the Championship in 2004, it was 05 and 06. I assume you're refering to the banning of the mass-damper in 06? The FIA rather suspiciously (some would argue to help Schumacher/Ferrari) decided mid-season it was moveable aerodynamic device and banned it, Then there was the very dodgy penalty at Monza 06 where Alonso was penalised for supposedly holding up Massa on his qualy run, even though he was half way up the road.

    I'm no Alonso fan boy and he screwed his own career somewhat, but I think you're being a bit unfair with your assesment. Let's not forget Vettel had a car that was glued to the road with downforce for 4 years, a weak teammate (to whom he almost lost the 2010 championship) and rather flexible wings (FIA had to up the tests to detect such 'moveable aerodynamic devices'). When faced with a less stable car and a more competitive temamate in 2014, Vettel was handed his arse and lost his head a number of times, as he did last year when he had a less than competitive car. I see nothing that suggest Alonso isn't on Hamilton or Vettel's level.

    The Indy 500 is a second-tier race. Hill,, Clark and Lotus thought it was worth a punt because 50 years ago it was on the same level as F1 in terms of prestige. Now, Indycar is not on the same level, technologically or in terms of driver calibre as F1 or even the Le Mans series. It uses cookie cutter cars and the drivers would almost all choose to be in F1 if they were good enough.

    OK, I got my years mixed up 04/5/6 and yes the FIA did some dodgy things to help Schumacher (nothing new there). I'm not saying Fernando isn't a great driver, the point I was making was that his star has faded and its fair to sugggest the talent pool in the mid 2000s perhaps wasn't as rich as it is now. I'd hardly call Mark Webber a weak driver either.

    In 2007 Alonso had a championship-winning car and a rookie for a team-mate. What did he do? Get the hump when he got beaten by a kid, demand team orders/no.1 status and be involved in the biggest espionage scandal the sport has ever seen. 

    In 2008 he was the beneficiary of the crashgate scandal, celebrating a plastic victory as if he'd earned it.

    His years at Ferrari I admired him. He drove brilliantly and pulled results out a car that was outclassed by the Red Bulls and McLarens (and possibly the Mercedes) but he got inpatient for a title and jumped ship. If he'd stayed he'd be fighting for the title this year, or maybe he wouldn't as his presence in a team seems to be a destructive force. 
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  • FretwiredFretwired Frets: 24601
    It's rumoured the Chinese team wanting to enter F1 is apparently Lotus .... Geely have taken a majority shareholding in the car company with a vie to a full takeover and have plans to expand production and create new models. F1 is seen as a shop window.

    Remember, it's easier to criticise than create!
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  • thumpingrugthumpingrug Frets: 2890
    Stewards are going to be kept busy after this one.  

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  • fretmeisterfretmeister Frets: 23955
    All driving like nutters.

    I remember when Panis won Monaco because everyone else crashed or broke down.
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  • thumpingrugthumpingrug Frets: 2890
    Im wondering if someone might get a disqualification.


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  • stickyfiddlestickyfiddle Frets: 26753
    This is fantastic!! 

    I'm hoping (lap 36) Ricciardo, Stroll, Ocon for the podium 
    The Assumptions - UAE party band for all your rock & soul desires
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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    See I told you Vettel is Capt Lucky.....

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • BoromedicBoromedic Frets: 4700
    Mardy prick

    My head said brake, but my heart cried never.


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  • MajorscaleMajorscale Frets: 1553
    Yep, incredibly lucky again. He needs anger management sessions! Great race though, especially after the borefest that was Baku last year.
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