The F1 thread

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I just can't see that happening. RB will want 50m+ to break Max's contract, and I don't think Merc will let Bottas go the was he's driving at the moment. And if Ham leaves it would surely only be in a straight swap with Vettel

Max has a break clause to do with having a competitive car.

That same car has won a race and got several podiums, just not with Max driving it. I'd be amazed if any break clause is viable with those results. And why would RB ever allow a rookie to have such a clause? He was a virtual-noone when RB signed him. 

Obviously any contract can be broken by mutual consent, but it'll take a huge amount of money to get RB to give that consent. Ferrari *might* make that offer if they see him as a superstar above all others, but I don't see why they'd bother when Vettel is winning at every opportunity and they could get a good #2 in Kimi's car until Max is a free agent.

chillidoggy

And what was all that 'jump-start' malarkey? Are they telling us that they don't have an instant read-out of a jump-start in this day and age of technology? Should have been sorted immediately, not half an hour later.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I just can't see that happening. RB will want 50m+ to break Max's contract, and I don't think Merc will let Bottas go the was he's driving at the moment. And if Ham leaves it would surely only be in a straight swap with Vettel

Max has a break clause to do with having a competitive car.

That same car has won a race and got several podiums, just not with Max driving it. I'd be amazed if any break clause is viable with those results. And why would RB ever allow a rookie to have such a clause? He was a virtual-noone when RB signed him. 

Obviously any contract can be broken by mutual consent, but it'll take a huge amount of money to get RB to give that consent. Ferrari *might* make that offer if they see him as a superstar above all others, but I don't see why they'd bother when Vettel is winning at every opportunity and they could get a good #2 in Kimi's car until Max is a free agent.

It didn't beat a Ferrari or a Mercedes on track though did it. Bottas made a mistake and thumped Kimi, Lewis was far in front until he had to pit to fix his neck rest thingy and Vettel got a penalty for bashing wheels with Lewis. And in yesterday's race Hamilton took a grid penalty. His qualifying wasn't great but he'd have been third on the grid so no podium for Red Bull.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

And what was all that 'jump-start' malarkey? Are they telling us that they don't have an instant read-out of a jump-start in this day and age of technology? Should have been sorted immediately, not half an hour later.

Apparently (according to Sky) they had the read out but had to check the rules as it was so borderline. Bottas either has amazing reactions of he was lucky.

chillidoggy

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

And what was all that 'jump-start' malarkey? Are they telling us that they don't have an instant read-out of a jump-start in this day and age of technology? Should have been sorted immediately, not half an hour later.

Apparently (according to Sky) they had the read out but had to check the rules as it was so borderline. Bottas either has amazing reactions of he was lucky.

Never!

Surely the rule is that the car cannot move before the lights extinguish? I mean, how hard can that be, it's black and white, either it did, or it didn't. The system should give an instant read-out for ALL the cars to the stewards, so we don't get a repeat of yesterday's pantomime performance.

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

Fretwired said:

chillidoggy said:

And what was all that 'jump-start' malarkey? Are they telling us that they don't have an instant read-out of a jump-start in this day and age of technology? Should have been sorted immediately, not half an hour later.

Apparently (according to Sky) they had the read out but had to check the rules as it was so borderline. Bottas either has amazing reactions of he was lucky.

Never!

Surely the rule is that the car cannot move before the lights extinguish? I mean, how hard can that be, it's black and white, either it did, or it didn't. The system should give an instant read-out for ALL the cars to the stewards, so we don't get a repeat of yesterday's pantomime performance.

That's only part of it. What is a typrical F1 drivers reaction time? The rule states that this needs to be taken into account as a reaction time of say 0.001 seconds is not possible - it would mean the car's wheels aren't moving, but in reality the driver made a decision to go before the lights went out and so jumped the start. Human reaction times are taken into account and Bottas was just OK.

chillidoggy

So plug the human reaction time into the software as an offset. Job done!

Fretwired

chillidoggy said:

So plug the human reaction time into the software as an offset. Job done!

I think Bottas was so fast and borderline they had to take a professional opinion on whether it was humanly possible - it's not an exact science. I'd rather they got it right.

stickyfiddle

I'd rather they just say "don't go while the lights are on". I have no problem if a driver anticipates it to get off the line quicker - it would just introduce another element for possible human error, which is great imo.

chillidoggy

I agree, let them anticipate, and the offence is then absolute, no arguments. You take the human element out of it doing that.

stickyfiddle

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

I just can't see that happening. RB will want 50m+ to break Max's contract, and I don't think Merc will let Bottas go the was he's driving at the moment. And if Ham leaves it would surely only be in a straight swap with Vettel

Max has a break clause to do with having a competitive car.

That same car has won a race and got several podiums, just not with Max driving it. I'd be amazed if any break clause is viable with those results. And why would RB ever allow a rookie to have such a clause? He was a virtual-noone when RB signed him. 

Obviously any contract can be broken by mutual consent, but it'll take a huge amount of money to get RB to give that consent. Ferrari *might* make that offer if they see him as a superstar above all others, but I don't see why they'd bother when Vettel is winning at every opportunity and they could get a good #2 in Kimi's car until Max is a free agent.

It didn't beat a Ferrari or a Mercedes on track though did it. Bottas made a mistake and thumped Kimi, Lewis was far in front until he had to pit to fix his neck rest thingy and Vettel got a penalty for bashing wheels with Lewis. And in yesterday's race Hamilton took a grid penalty. His qualifying wasn't great but he'd have been third on the grid so no podium for Red Bull.

Shit happens in racing, and that's actually quite predictable over a season. The car has had multiple podiums. There's no way RB would allow a break clause for poor performance that specifically deemed poor performance as "failure to get wins and podiums ignoring any where a Merc had a penalty or DNF". And Max would've been in no position to negotiate such a clause even if RB might give it to a Vettel/Ham/Fred after they've won multiple titles.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Shit happens in racing, and that's actually quite predictable over a season. The car has had multiple podiums. There's no way RB would allow a break clause for poor performance that specifically deemed poor performance as "failure to get wins and podiums ignoring any where a Merc had a penalty or DNF". And Max would've been in no position to negotiate such a clause even if RB might give it to a Vettel/Ham/Fred after they've won multiple titles.

Not great though. How many poles have they had? How many times has either Red Bull driver overtaken Vettel, Hamilton or Bottas on track for a podium or win? Ricciado was right when he said he had a big slice of luck which he couldn't believe. Red Bull are firmly behind Mercedes and Ferrari.

As for the break clause that's what is circulating in the paddock - and I'd call having all those DNFs not having a reliable car. Jos said his son will stay at Red Bull next year but things could hot up if the rumours about the new teams coming into F1 are true. Looks like Big Ron could be back.

stickyfiddle

I'm not arguing RB are behind - they're clearly the third best team with a chunky gap in front and behind them. I just don't see RB signing anything drafted loosely enough that a race-winning car could be deemed "uncompetitive".

The new team factor is a good point, but whoever ends up joining (whether Ron's "MP5" or Geely/Lotus or whoever), they won't be more than halfway up the grid for several years, so I can't see it impacting silly season at the sharp end.

TBH I dont'care what happens with Max - I really want to see Ricciardo in a championship fight.

chillidoggy

They've done it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40566434

boogieman

chillidoggy said:

They've done it!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/40566434

Hopefully greedy shit Bernie hasn't killed it off and they can sort out a better deal. I hate street circuit races, I hope they can keep it at Silverstone.  

Nitefly

How about 3 laps of the M25?  If they went clockwise, we could see if they could achieve escape velocity going up the QE2 bridge.  

chillidoggy

Nitefly said:

How about 3 laps of the M25?  If they went clockwise, we could see if they could achieve escape velocity going up the QE2 bridge.  

Pffff. I'd never be able to concentrate for the length of time it'd take for that particular race.

stickyfiddle

This is just step one of the renegotiation. Liberty knows there are a handful of historic flagship races and circuits - Monaco, Monza, Silverstone, and Spa are the obvious ones. Then I guess Hockenheim/Nurburgring, though both are shadows of their former selves. Brawn and Carey have both said already that they have no intention of dropping these races, and the swift reintroduction of permanent fixtures in France and Germany bode well.

Fretwired

Honda to quit F1?

http://www.thedrive.com/accelerator/12346/is-honda-preparing-to-withdraw-from-formula-one

stickyfiddle

So everything in their pipeline is still complete shit then, I guess. I do wonder if it's Honda's decision to withdraw completely, or Sauber pulling out of their deal. With Kaltenborn out and Vasseur coming in it's pretty clear the new owners want to move forward, and taking Honda engines is hardly likely to make that happen. 

Bad for the short term, but good for McLaren, and good for the long term as it'll be exactly the catalyst that forces everyone to be sensible on the next engine regs. Brawn will have all the ammunition he needs to make it work.