Fusion Licks in Dorian Mode

monquixote

I think Fusion is a bit of an abused term which often equates to atonal wankery, but I think of it as like prog is to rock, i.e. jazz that takes influences from outside jazz like rock and funk. 

ddlooping

P.S: the video/backing track I posted earlier was made by Quist.
I left a comment on youtube telling him about  theFB , he was a member of the MR forum.

randomhandclaps

Have had time to watch the video this morning.  Although the concepts I explained in my previous post apply in both Jazz and Fusion, they do not apply to this guy's video - and although a loose term it does not sit comfortably with me to describe this guys licks as 'fusion'.  I'm basing the 'fusion' style associated with John McLaughlin and John Scofield (and many other players not called John).

One issue when dealing with the modal system is an element is about the players perception of what they are playing.  The true 'mode' is only determined by the chordal bed beneath.  Practicing, or in this case teaching, licks without a backing track does not allow you to build correct note references.

As @Viz pointed out, this guy actually leans very heavily on harmonic minor and Phrygian (which answers your earlier question about the 'C' note.).  It's not to say these lick are not worth learning if you like them, they just aren't actually Dorian based licks as quoted.

In reference to you earlier point about playing around the tonic and trying to break out of this it is worth remembering that this can be as equally a burnt in 'brain reference' problem to tackle as much as a scale knowledge or technique issue.  To explain briefly, if you take early blues giants a hell of a lot of licks culminated it a return to the root of the underlying chord - our brains like naturally like this as it brings a complete and natural resolution.  This early blues players were obviously the main driving influence on early Rock and Pop so again a return to the root note was very prevalent.  This doesn't only apply to guitar licks but any melodic line.  As a result if you grow up surrounded by mainstream western music then you brain becomes entrenched in the acceptance and the brain pleasing quality that a return to root melody brings.  It's worth spending a fair amount of time submerging yourself in the fusion players you with to emulating allowing you brain to learn and accept alternate resolutions.

viz

+4

Barney

You can play any notes outside the scale if you make good resolution....I think sometimes people look into it a bit to much ...why not get a backer and try a pentatonic and just add one outside note untill you become comfortable and make a good resolution...then add another and so on.....even try using the pentatonics up a a fret. Making good resolution agan to the key.....it all works if worked on and will give a fusion type of sound...

viz

Yep - Steve Vai does a classic here. He's been playing rigidly in the ionion mode throughout the solo. Then at 5:35 he starts a long legato twiddle from bottom to top, culminating in a climax on the top note. He moves from shape to shape, gradually moving up the fretboard, until 5:53 when he suddenly repeats the shape of 5:51, except 1 fret up, so it's completely out of key, then he moves up another fret and snaps back into key, ready for the resolving climax at the top. It's classic because it's so unexpected and it jerks you out of your reverie, and yet although it deviates from the key and from the expected norm, it also fits perfectly. Only Vai.

Bellycaster

@randomhandclaps

Thanks for that post. I had some iPhone fuckery going on earlier and you ended up with -1 Wisdoms. I'm still having trouble with it now.

ddlooping

viz said:

He's been playing rigidly in the ionion mode throughout the solo.

a) I didn't know Apple was making vegetable substitutes?
b) the mode that makes you cry if you over-analyse it?  

viz said:

...when he suddenly repeats the shape of 5:51, except 1 fret up, so it's completely out of key...

Not knowing the studio version it sounded more like a mistake to me.  :-S 

Bellycaster

@Barney

Cheers for the info. I have checked out more of your Music on Soundclick so I can partly blame you for my interest in Fusion style.

Barney

Bellycaster;36196" said:

@Barney

Cheers for the info. I have checked out more of your Music on Soundclick so I can partly blame you for my interest in Fusion style.

Lol....sorry about that..if you need any sort of help with it give me a shout..ill help best I can

viz

ddlooping said:

viz said:

He's been playing rigidly in the ionion mode throughout the solo.

a) I didn't know Apple was making vegetable substitutes?
b) the mode that makes you cry if you over-analyse it?  

viz said:

...when he suddenly repeats the shape of 5:51, except 1 fret up, so it's completely out of key...

Not knowing the studio version it sounded more like a mistake to me.  :-S 

a) haha! spotted!

b) haha

c) I hope that was a joke.

 

ddlooping

viz said:

ddlooping said:

viz said:

He's been playing rigidly in the ionion mode throughout the solo.

a) I didn't know Apple was making vegetable substitutes?
b) the mode that makes you cry if you over-analyse it?  

viz said:

...when he suddenly repeats the shape of 5:51, except 1 fret up, so it's completely out of key...

Not knowing the studio version it sounded more like a mistake to me.  :-S 

a) haha! spotted!

b) haha

c) I hope that was a joke.

 

Where is me LOL then? :P

Bellycaster

@Barney

Don't apologise, it's great stuff, that plus Larry Carlton and Co and you realise the magnitude of the task ahead.

 

 

viz

@ddlooping oh all right!

Jalapeno

"B Dorian Scale"    He lost my interest there.

Guthrie's Pirate modes video nails the concept.

Bellycaster

@ddlooping

I've used Quist's backing tracks a lot, they are great and among the best out there. I don't recall seeing much of the name "Quist" on the unmentionable place, unless he used a different username and the regulars just knew it was him????

ddlooping

Bellycaster said:

@ddlooping

I've used Quist's backing tracks a lot, they are great and among the best out there. I don't recall seeing much of the name "Quist" on the unmentionable place, unless he used a different username and the regulars just knew it was him????

Maybe Quist wasn't his username there, I can't remember.

Catthan

i think all the comments about borrowing notes from other modes are correct. having watched some other vid of his about playing outside, the way I think he approaches it is by using what Is called side slipping which is moving up or down a half step and then resolving back to position. it works 'cause of all the explanations above and imho it's generally a way to create tension without thinking about all the theory behind what works and why. re the #7 and b9, I d look at it as implying some altered dominant, the V particularly. It's a common trick over static vamps. I don't have enough data left on my phone to watch the full vid so feel free to FP me if I m talking BS

Brgrds,

randomhandclaps

Jalapeno said:

"B Dorian Scale"    He lost my interest there.

I take your point but with the sound off this video looks remarkably like the 'manifesto' video someone makes before going postal - and look at that guy, he looks a real candidate - that alone kept me hooked.

Bellycaster

@ddlooping

Probably, IDK. I wasn't being sarcy there, it may have looked that way, sorry. It's just some forum members know who each other are on different places or at least I thought they did.