Guitar Setup

thomasross20

OK so there are a million guides to guitar set-up online but I'd like to know how you do it. I'm trying to set up a guitar and for the life of me can't get the buzz out - the truss rod is loose, the saddles are high enough as is.. don't worry, it's not the PRS! Do you use radius gauges (over/under-string?) and rulers/feelers and go by measurements? Or do you eyeball it? Do you do it by feel only? How do you set the bridge radius if it's a compound radius fretboard? 

guitarfishbay

Set of feeler gauges will help a lot for setting neck relief, especially so when you're just learning the basics as it is hard to eyeball when you're not sure exactly what you're supposed to be looking for. A capo will help too as you use it to hold down the first fret to leave a hand free for measuring.

I use a ruler for string height and double check radius by looking from the bridge down the neck. Not exact but gives a good idea, I've just not got around to buying radius guides yet. Not sure re:compound radius, never owned a guitar like that.

Most manufacturers have setup guides and recommended factory baselines for key measurements. I tend to go off those to start with and do final tweaks by feel.

ICBM

I do it entirely by eye, feel and sound. Never measure anything normally. I set the bridge radius the same way.

Given the imprecise way a guitar is played, that the only definition of success is that it feels and sounds right when doing so, and the extremely fine interactivity between at least a couple of the variables, I don't see the point in measuring things.

guitarfishbay

It might also be worth getting a frer rocker tool to help find any fret height discrepancies. If the frets aren't even you're fighting a losing battle if you want a low and buzz free action. It is worth having even if you're not going to do the fret work yourself, as then at least you can find what is causing you problems and then plan your course of action from there.

http://www.tonetechluthiersupplies.co.uk/luthier-tools/fretting/high-fret-finder.html

thomasross20

Fret rocker is a nice idea! I recently got a little ruler and under-string radius gauges but honestly still use mostly an eyeball/feel method. Most references say relief of 0.01" at 7th fret is enough but that's next to nothing! Anyway I'm still having trouble - I loosen the truss rod until there's no fight left in it (very wary of loosening it too much - but is that a problem? You can basically loosen it completely right... it's over-tightening you don't want to do) and raise the saddles but given the action is too high by that point, I don't see why I should go that far. They're SS frets but I don't think that makes a difference. It's basically a new guitar so can't be the frets.

RaymondLin

Where is the buzz?

guitarfishbay

ICBM;406220" said:

I do it entirely by eye, feel and sound. Never measure anything normally. I set the bridge radius the same way.

Given the imprecise way a guitar is played, that the only definition of success is that it feels and sounds right when doing so, and the extremely fine interactivity between at least a couple of the variables, I don't see the point in measuring things.

But have you always done it by eye? I honestly benefitted from buying measuring tools, mostly because my idea of what neck relief was supposed to look like was way off. I still use tools when setting up guitars belonging to friends/band mates (again referencing manufacturer settings), but I can adjust my own guitars by eye/feel now just out of familiarity.

thomasross20

The buzz.. ok before I check. Do you do it by plucking with fingers. Or plectrum. Near the bridge (where it sounds worse) or nearer the neck? I got this off an affable chap from this forum as it turns out. I'm just trying to figure some things out - there seems to be a green tinge to the maple fretboard along the centre of the neck. The guy said it was due to the light but to me it looks like it's part of the wood - given it's near-new (2013) I don't see what this can be. Here are pics - I've e-mailed the guitar builder to ask, also. What do you think?

guitarfishbay

Plug into your amp, play it normally with the plectrum you'd normally use.

thomasross20

Maybe I'm being a dope. The closer I pluck to the bridge with the pick, the more rattle - is it just "bridge rattle" and how do you get rid of that? And what causes it? I don't get much of that on the PRS. I'm starting to think that's all this is... 

thomasross20

I'll have to try that later, thanks. Just going out for medicine (been struck down with what feels like Ebola!!). 

A lot of people say with SS frets there's a more metallic sound but I'm not quite sure what they mean by that.

I reckon it can be sorted, but the more pressing thing is probably the green in the maple - no idea what that is!

horse

Oi - have you gone and bought a strat without telling us?? It's not a Suhr is it?

thomasross20

All may be revealed..

I'm dying to get the answer to this green tinge question. I'm sure it's nothing but I just want to KNOW what it is! Surely somebody here with all their experience would know. Also still waiting to hear back from the manufacturer. Surely can't be rot/mould given how new it is, the only other thing I read online is that smoky environments can cause a green tinge like that? Answers, please!

horse

Sod that - it's time to start thinking about the next one now! :-)

ICBM

guitarfishbay said:

But have you always done it by eye? I honestly benefitted from buying measuring tools, mostly because my idea of what neck relief was supposed to look like was way off. I still use tools when setting up guitars belonging to friends/band mates (again referencing manufacturer settings), but I can adjust my own guitars by eye/feel now just out of familiarity.

Yes, always.

My idea of what neck relief was supposed to look like was formed simply from finding out what felt good and didn't cause buzz, knowing that the theoretical ideal is no relief but that there has to be a little in the real world. I think I read either Dan Erlewine or Melvyn Hiscock's books fairly early on too, which helped.

Most people check relief completely the wrong way, by sighting down the neck. That's only to check for high frets. The right way - to hold the guitar in the playing position and fret the G string at the first and last frets, and compare the gap at the 7th-8th frets to the diameter of the string - is extremely precise and there's a large visual difference between about right and way too much, even with no experience. Beyond that you have to try it - if it feels too stiff in the middle of the neck you can try less relief; if it rattles in the low positions it needs more relief. Measuring doesn't get you any closer to the right ballpark and takes longer, so I just don't bother.

There are very simple rule-of-thumb starting points for nut height and saddle adjustment that don't need measurement too.

Nut: fret each string at the third fret, and check the gap between the string and the first fret. (Should be less than about a quarter of the string diameter.)

Bridge: pick a note hard at the 12th fret or higher, and bend it up a whole tone. If it chokes, the bridge is too low. The saddles need to be adjusted to a smooth curve with the high E lowest and the D highest usually. Easy to do by eye. A radius gauge can be misleading anyway since the correct radius for the saddles is *larger* than that of the fingerboard.

That's it really! The rest is just feel, ears and experience.

I have never once used a feeler gauge to check either relief or nut height or a radius gauge to set bridge saddles. I very occasionally use a simple steel rule to check action height at the 12th fret if it's miles too high and I want a ballpark figure to do something fairly drastic which is a pain to do more than once, like shimming the neck or (on an acoustic) cutting the saddle down.

thomasross20

Good stuff, that's largely what I do, ICBM! 

Comments on the fretboard? Dying to know about that - maybe it's common and I don't know about it. 

richardhomer

Suhr recommends hardly any relief at all - around half the thickness of a top E string.

Are you checking relief with the guitar in the playing position? If not - for example if it's lying flat on a table - gravity will have an impact.

How close are the neck and middle pick-ups to the strings, when held down at the last fret? They should be about 3mm away - if they are closer, they distort the arc in which the strings vibrate and create more buzz (far more so than humbuckers which have less magnetic 'pull').

For some reason, longer scale, bolt-on necks always seem 'buzzier' - probably because they tend to emphasise the higher harmonics. That 'rattly' quality is very much a characteristic of vintage style Strats, though is much less prevalent on a Suhr.

I would be amazed if there was anything actually 'wrong' with the guitar. Whilst I'm personally not a lover of Suhr instruments, their built quality is beyond criticism usually.

thomasross20

Yep I'm sure all is ok. Will have to try it through the amp - any REAL rattle will only be heard through that yeah? 

I think it is just rattle at the bridge - but what causes that? The closer I pick to the bridge, the more rattle I hear. 

streethawk

I use feeler gauges and radius gauges for nut heights etc and then change everything. 

>:D<

The main thing is to make sure every component involved in a set up is relatively sorted. Pretty easy after that if the neck itself is ok.

horse

You're not hearing the trem springs are you?

thomasross20

Just got to go out, keep suggestions coming. 

What's the best way to distinguish genuine fret buzz (which I now think isn't a problem..) and bridge rattle?