Keeping the Damn Drummer in Time!

PermanentWaves

Hi all,

As some of you know, after years in the wilderness, I am part of a band again.

We play covers.

We are "eager amateurs". We think we sound ok

Our drummer is pretty good (and that from a guitarist!).

One thing we struggle with though is making sure we play songs at the correct speed.

We can maintain the speed he sets, but if he gets it wrong we stay wrong.

I was thinking that some form of metronome would help him count us all in at the correct speed.

There must be lots of electronic gadgets out there and ideally it's something that he could see on a dark stage.

He uses an electric drum kit but it doesn't appear to have such a device built in.

So, anyone using a metronome or does your drummer?

What's your solution?

Thanks
Mike

monquixote

There are a few drummers metronomes with programmable tempo memories. I think Tama used to make one.

I bet you can get an iPhone app that does it

steamabacus

Years ago, my old drummer came up with the idea for a metronome that gave a physical, vibrating pulse so drummers could 'feel' the tempo on a noisy stage. At the time, nobody made anything like this.

More recently, Peterson brought out the BodyBeat BB-1 which seems to have been superceded by the BodyBeat Sync BBS-1.

(My drummer mate is still poor)

Cirrus

Our drummer uses the programmable Tama thingy. When I was a drummer, I used a Boss DB-90. Both work well, though the Tama feels like it's a little more solidly built.

randomhandclaps

Personally the few time I have worked with drummers with timing problems the addition of a flashing metronome didn't help with the timing, it just helped win the inevitable argument about how far they were actually out.

ElectroDan

randomhandclaps said:

Personally the few time I have worked with drummers with timing problems the addition of a flashing metronome didn't help with the timing, it just helped win the inevitable argument about how far they were actually out.

Agreed. The last thing your audience are going to want to do is sit waiting while your drummer programmes his flashing light at the right rate. If he can't take a second or two to imagine the next song and count in at a suitable tempo, perhaps one of the band (who can) should count in.

bluechargeboy

When you are playing live, envisage how fast the song is and then count it in a bit slower. Adrenaline makes you crazy loco and you play too fast. I have heard recordings of my band when we have played exciting gigs with an energetic crowd, and bugger me we were playing fast.

Fuzzdog

Hooking the output of a metronome up to a cattle prod on the drum stool usually works.

Fez

The only one we have an issue with is Freebird (not in the set yet) rhythm guitarist who starts it brought his metrognome and just used it to get the first couple of bars and that sorted the problem. I should think once he gets to know the song it will be OK (he is 67 and doesn't know anything released after 1935 though he gamely takes on Foo's & RHCP).

Our drummer did once start Rockin' in the free world at something like double time, somehow we managed to get right within two bars.

Played on a jam night with the drummer out of the lads death metal band on the stool - the fastest version of all along the watchtower you ever heard.

The best thing is practice and experience and studying the original versions.

John_BlackWolf

Our guy uses the Tama - http://www.tamadrum.co.jp/usa/products/accessories/RW105.html#.VHIezYusV8E

Great bit of kit, he uses it with this Behringer IEM velcro'd on the top to get a mono monitor mix from the sound desk alongside the Metronome. - http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/MA400.aspx

RocknRollDave

It's down to the person who starts the song to set the correct tempo - be it drummer, guitarist, bassist (depends on the song). We all have one-off moments when nerves or whatever get the better of you and you start too fast or too hesitantly...but do it regularly and you're not up to the job, frankly, unless you're able to have a word with yourself and work it out once and for all.

Blacksheep

In my experience most of the time tempo issues involve playing too fast, usually through nerves or adrenaline. I'd say dont get too hung up on matching tempo of the original unless what you are doing sounds bad. The original artist probably played the song faster live anyway.

Jalapeno

RocknRollDave said:

It's down to the person who starts the song to set the correct tempo - be it drummer, guitarist, bassist (depends on the song). We all have one-off moments when nerves or whatever get the better of you and you start too fast or too hesitantly...but do it regularly and you're not up to the job, frankly, unless you're able to have a word with yourself and work it out once and for all.

Our drummer insists on the 1-2-3-4 no matter who starts the tune.  I've convinced him now to STFU on Streets With No Name as the intro is in 6:8, only switching to 4:4 for the 1st verse, and it's all in the delay pedal setting anyway    

He can start most tunes too slow/fast seemingly randomly

nickp

imho etc given that I have less band experience than most

1. our drummer is good

2. he was sensitive to speed issues on songs - so just be aware that drummers might take this sort of discussion personally

3. as we have rehearsed more over time we have become more relaxed with time and play songs slower and more "in the groove"

4. he (now) uses an app on his iphone which flashes the bpm of songs and I think he has noted our preferred tempo for songs so that we consistently rehearse at the "correct" tempo

5. in a gig we play the song "as it comes out" but as we rehearse at the "correct" tempo more often than not we are playing the song at a better speed

6. lots of bands play songs sometimes a bit fast and sometimes they sound rushed so it isn't unusual.  Personally I think that the better bands have nailed this issue and allow the song to breathe

Paul_C

The singer/guitarist counts in the songs in our band, sometimes quick, sometimes slow, sometimes 1 2 3 4 for a song in 6/8

Sometimes the cajon player sticks to the speed we start off at, sometimes he gets giddy.

I just sigh and make do with what I get, though I have refused to play a song which includes a passably complex pattern on bass which can end up making me look inept if it gets too fast (I start it at a speed I can cope with but the aforementioned cajon player does enjoy building up a head of steam as it progresses) 

fretmeister

I remember a drummer I played with about 20 years ago.

The band I was in at the time were doing our début show and we had about 45 mins of material.

Our very very nervous drummer played everything far too fast and we finished in just over 30 mins!

We got a new drummer after that!

hugbot

Playing a bit fast isnt the end of the world to be honest.

I read an interview with Trent Reznor about his live set up and he mentioned that when running stuff off MIDI/a backing track he always kicks it up a few bpm from what it was on the record because otherwise it sounds a bit lifeless live.

However if its a real problem a metronome or something should help. Yes he might veer a bit off it as the song goes on, but as long as you can get inital count in to set the tempo right you should be good. 

Its starting a song, realising you're out and having to correct it thats horrible.

PermanentWaves

Thanks Guys. I have to say our drummers darn good.

Better than most.

I was just trying to help him.

That said, I'm sure (and hope!) he's posting comments about that damn lead guitarist on one of his drum boards

Voxman

Isn't it amazing that drummers, who with the bassist, are supposed to be a solid rhythm section that drives a band yet all too often the drummer is the one with the worst sense of timing in the band. I have no formal musical training but I can just 'feel' the right timing...and I just don't understand why so many drummers can't when timing is so intrinsic to what they are supposed to be doing. One of life's great mysteries I suppose.

PolarityMan

Voxman;431714" said:

Isn't it amazing that drummers, who with the bassist, are supposed to be a solid rhythm section that drives a band yet all too often the drummer is the one with the worst sense of timing in the band. I have no formal musical training but I can just 'feel' the right timing...and I just don't understand why so many drummers can't when timing is so intrinsic to what they are supposed to be doing. One of life's great mysteries I suppose.

Do you play the drums? I do and I find it much harder to keep time than playing bass or guitar. My theory is that it is down to constantly having to switch subdivisions. Plus of course you might be splitting timing across 4 limbs.

koneguitarist

Why is it the drummers fault?  

Quite often from experience its the bassist slowing him down or speeding him up. Sometimes, he just can't hear what's going on. Monitors help drummers as well you know.

First off put a monitor so he can hear clearly then record a bit of the band, and listen back whilst you are not playing. My drummer keeps very good time apart from two songs, where the singer speeds up on acoustic, I told the bassist, slow him down and hold him to the beat. 

Worked after that. 

It is Not always the drummer, sometimes, but not always.