EastWest / Quantum Leap Virtual Instruments

Nomad

Anyone used the EastWest / Quantum Leap virtual instruments? If so...

Their target market seems to be composers for films and games, but would it be fair to assume that their products can be used for more generic stuff as well?

I've been looking at the packages for quite a while, particularly Symphonic Choirs and Symphonic Orchestra, probably as part of the multi-package discounted deal they do (which is still expensive). Target system would be a decent PC running Sonar on Win7.

It's a big investment and it really has to work reliably and sound excellent. I realise I may have to upgrade some of the computer hardware to get the performance needed. (Current main spec is quad core 3.2GHz with 8gigs RAM. Two 1TB mirrored drives, but not really enough space for this - would need to add at least a new hard drive dedicated to the software, and probably max the RAM at 16gigs.)

Any comments would be appreciated.

randomhandclaps

It really depend on the context of your usage.  I have a few of their instruments and whilst they are great they are quite grandiose and very polished.  I probably end up using them less that some other packages as in a 'small band' context that can be too much.  

Some of their older products (the original Storm Drum springs to mind) also didn't give you a lot of options for creation, rather triggering existing patterns.  Again it depends how you work.  As I tend to compose from the ground up for a specific purpose I found this limiting.  However my cousin who is a hip hop artist loved it when he used our studio as he could get up and running really quickly and it's a genre that lends itself to repeated figures.

Nomad

I compose/write from the ground up, mostly hand-entered MIDI in the sequencer piano roll. I don't use loops, although I do sometimes have repeating figures, in which case, they're copy/pasted manually with possible tweaks as the ting builds up. The musical styles vary. It's not really a small band setup, although that does feature sometimes. It's more a case of forming various ensembles of selected instruments from a palette of about 20, usually guitars or organ providing the rhythmic underpinning, often with choirs either featuring or providing the background, and then a variety of melody instruments.

Polished is good - I'm after better realism and audio quality. My impression of the EWQL stuff is that it's very sophisticated in terms of articulations as well, and that has a strong appeal. The word builder in Symphonica Choirs is interesting - I'm not really into lyrics, but it offers the possibility to get away from straight ooh and aah pads and use much more involved vocalisations. Also looking for recordings that lean towards dry so that I can add my own reverbs (which, annoyingly, means the cheaper versions of the Symphonic packages are no use because they only have the stage mic position). It's a pity that the demos tend to sound like dramatic film scores - it's hard to assess the sounds individually and get an idea of how well they'd work in smaller ensembles.

JohnPerry

I have the East West Complete Composers Collection with the gold orchestra, choir, piano etc and three mic positions and all that. I bought it to add realistic orchestrations to my home recordings and while it does that impeccably it's overkill (and not just musically!!).  It would take you an age to go through every articulation available. And frankly to get the absolute best out of it you have to have some idea of how, say, a violinist plays to pick the right articulation. 

The quality is sublime, but to me you need a lot of time with it and unless you're using it professionally (maybe you are?) there are probably simpler packages which get you most of the way there. Indeed East/West's Goliath programme is like a greatest hits of their stuff - easier to use, cheaper and still great quality.

A mate of mine uses Goliath and ProjectSam Orchestral Essentials 2 and his soundtracks are getting picked up and used on US TV occasionally.

randomhandclaps

JohnPerry said:

And frankly to get the absolute best out of it you have to have some idea of how, say, a violinist plays to pick the right articulation. 

I completely agree with this point, although to a degree most good programmed instruments only sound great when you have that sort of knowledge.  

With East West and a few other you can end up having to open multiple instruments (especially in Kontakt) to get realistic changes in articulations - even within a short line.  If anything they can be two broken down or too complex.

I like the Project Sam stuff a lot also. 

If your not looking for a lot of exposed individual instruments or voices then the Symphobia stuff in really pretty great and if your inputting from a keyboard you don't get bogged down in hours of tuning and editing.  Even the small and solo sections are good, just probably not complex enough to fool someone who knew what they were looking for when exposed.

Clarky

I'm involved with a lil' movie trailer writing gang..

there are a pile of EWQL instruments on my GAS list

particularly the brass..

for strings I'm not sure yet if I should go for EWQL or LASS

my current strings are pretty ok so it's not something I need to look at for a while

my choirs are Sound Iron Venus and Mars.. awesome..

I'd still be up for getting the EWQL choir though.. mixing things up / together can be a good thing..

if you're serious about getting into film music.. then you got to spend serious money on your instruments..

I'm still building my collection and it's cost an arm and a leg so far..

Nomad

Thanks for the comments, folks. I'll do some web trawling to check out the other options.

I'm starting to wonder if Symphonic Choirs and Orchestra are really what I'm after. Are the various voices and instruments recorded at different volumes in the way that pianos are recorded at different velocities to give the different timbres? Or is it all just full-on belt it out stuff? In other words, are there sounds that are more subtle and laid back?

I'm not so much into massed choirs and full orchestras - more like small ensembles of individual vocalists (mostly doing oohs and aahs) and individual instruments, maybe with the odd string wash.

randomhandclaps

They are recorded at various velocities (so to speak). A lot have the option to load up a program with three different velocity settings and random attack which cuts down on RAM needed but still remains convincing in a mix.

Clarky

Nomad said:

Thanks for the comments, folks. I'll do some web trawling to check out the other options.

I'm starting to wonder if Symphonic Choirs and Orchestra are really what I'm after. Are the various voices and instruments recorded at different volumes in the way that pianos are recorded at different velocities to give the different timbres? Or is it all just full-on belt it out stuff? In other words, are there sounds that are more subtle and laid back?

I'm not so much into massed choirs and full orchestras - more like small ensembles of individual vocalists (mostly doing oohs and aahs) and individual instruments, maybe with the odd string wash.

if you're after something that's pretty good and not too difficult to use, take a look at Native Instruments stuff.. it's not the best there is.. but it's not bad either..

if you're after as you say "a string wash", orchestral strings may not be what you're looking for... synth string pads are really good for that sort of thing..

if you have Logic Pro X, you'll find that it comes with a pretty comprehensive suite of all kinds of instruments.. choirs that "oo aahh", some basic but pretty good sounding orchestral sections and instruments.. but also some very nice synth pads [like Jupiter strings etc].. these are far easier to work with than the specialised orchestral packages that try to be as authentic as possible by having sht loads of articulations..

another suite of instruments that is very comprensive and easy to use [that is better than that which comes with Logic] is Native Instruments Komplete.. the latest is Komplete 10.. I have Komplete 9.. it's superb and very easy to use.. it provides a huge bundle of pretty much everythnig you need.. drums / perc, bass [guitar and synth], synths, orch / choir, fx etc.. superb value for money..

Clarky

btw - Komplete 10 comes in two versions.. the basic version is the one I'm talking about rather than the super duper ultimate version..

sweepy

Worth picking up Komplete 8 or 9 for discounts too

Clarky

I started with Komplete 7 and upgraded to 9. 9 is better because it comes with Kontakt 5 [I don't know what version of Kontakt Komplete 8 has].

Kontakt 4 is great, but 5 is better; especially if you want to add other non-NI instruments that run within Kontakt [like EWQL, Sound Iron etc...]

Clarky

my Native Instruments Session Strings Pro showed up today...

this was a Cyber Monday 50% off deal that was too good to turn down.. I reckon this AU will be a great stopgap until I can eventually save up that small mountain of coins required to get LASS..

so... I'm excited.. I got new toyz to goof with...

Clarky

Session Strings Pro: now that I've had a chance to noodle with it..

sounds great, easy to use, loads of articulations.. I really like it..

I bet EWQL and LASS sound even more realistic and are more capable.. but they are much more difficult to use.. you need to know more about violin techniques / string sections in general...

that said.. EWQL and LASS cost lots and lots more...

in terms of sound, realism, ease of use, and general bang for buck?? Session Strings Pro is superb value

Nomad

Had a look at some of the other options, and have decided to go with EWQL Symphonic Choirs and Solo Violin for now. They're having a sale on some of their stuff, and the two together worked out at 235 quid for the download versions. I felt that some of the others weren't terribly cheap in comparison (given the EWQL discount), and the Word Builder thing does interest me. Symphonic Orchestra wasn't especially good value unless bought as part of the Pro version of the Classic Composers Collection (need the Platinum to get close mics), which costs about a grand, so I've decided to leave that and look into other strings options.

The software is currently downloading, and will take a little while (several tens of gigs!), so I'll report back later.

Clarky

I'd be interested to hear how things go with the choir..

when I was buying mine, it was a close call between the EWQL and Sound Iron choirs

features wise they're very similar.. sound wise I thought the Sound Iron demo's were just a little more convincing..

that said, I bet at some point I'll end up with the EWQL one too so I can blend them..

Nomad

I'm impressed so far. About the only negative to report is that it can be a bit glitchy if manipulating windows and settings in the DAW (the Play interface, or effect plugins) while it's playing. No streaming or memory issues if the mouse and windows are left alone. That's running up to five instances of Play (4 choir voices and solo violin).

I haven't tried rendering individual tracks to wave files yet. My intended modus operandi is to develop a mix with the parts all running simultaneously, with reverb and EQ as needed, and then record each track dry to a wave before working up the final multi-track mix from the set of waves.

The word builder thing is pretty impressive. After seeing various demos recently, using the Votox method of inputting text seems to be the best way to get the words to sound right. It's a bit odd at first, but really quite usable if you think in terms of syllables and sounds rather than normal spellings. While I'm not terribly into writing lyrics per-se, it's excellent for getting the choirs to change vowel sounds on the fly - no having to layer oo, aa, ee, mm, etc voices.

Clarky

most of the time you can never understand anything a choir sings even if it's in English..

I tend not to try to make real words.. just psudo-words..

Nomad

Agreed on choirs and lyrics - you kinda have to know the words to make them out, otherwise it's just a bunch of syllables (which is fine as far as I'm concerned).

Thinking of going for the non-pro NI Session Strings. It seems to be the right balance between price and articulations for my needs, given that I can't find anything that does solo instruments at sensible money (Symphonic Orchestra does, but it's too dear). I also like the fact that Session Strings seems to be a recording of a small ensemble rather than a full orchestra - can layer up for a bigger sound.

Any other string libraries worth considering before I pull the trigger on Session Strings? (I should mention that I'm not writing 'film music' or stuff that might be considered grandiose - more like chamber music albeit with a wider range instruments than just the typical strings.)

Clarky

I've got both Session Strings [which came with Komplete 9] and Session Strings Pro [which I got on Black Friday 50% off]..

the Pro version does offer more in the way of features and articulations..

sound wise though they are comparable..

personally I think Pro is better and worth the extra dosh..

it's not a huge strings section.. but it is nice and can be made to sound bigger by blending it with variations of itself..

for my epic blood and snot bullsht, I'll be blending it with other strings sections I have too

Nomad

I would probably have got Pro at half the price, but £249 was too steep for my expected amount of use. Went with Session Strings, and that suits me fine.