Do specific types of guitars sound better with certain brands of amp?

ICBM

No, I thought it sounded rubbish with all guitars too, just that it seems to be usable with very bright, thin-sounding single-coil guitars (which I normally dislike), whereas it wasn't really usable with anything thicker. So it falls outside the qualification of a good amp sounds good with any decent guitar .

I actually don't like many small valve amps, I usually find them far too boxy and 'narrow' sounding, which does tend to restrict the range of guitars they work well with. A *good* amp has a wider range of tone. (That includes some small ones - a Fender Blackface/Silverface Champ is a good example.)

Voxman

ICBM said:

No, I thought it sounded rubbish with all guitars too, just that it seems to be usable with very bright, thin-sounding single-coil guitars (which I normally dislike), whereas it wasn't really usable with anything thicker. So it falls outside the qualification of a good amp sounds good with any decent guitar .

I actually don't like many small valve amps, I usually find them far too boxy and 'narrow' sounding, which does tend to restrict the range of guitars they work well with. A *good* amp has a wider range of tone. (That includes some small ones - a Fender Blackface/Silverface Champ is a good example.)

I've never understood the fascination/popularity of small low wattage valve amps for that very reason.  When I first started playing electric my first guitar was a 'top gear' Tele shaped guitar that cost £20, and my amp was a 7w 'Leo' practice amp made by Triumph that had a 12" eliptical speaker and cost £32 (mine had a very light grey grill cloth).  That was a fair bit in 1972 and would probably equate to to the price of a Vox AC4TV today.  Today, ridiculously, these are now regarded as vintage and (if you can find them) command (comparatively) silly money.  Found some pics from a guy that took pics of the innards and talked about mods he'd made on it.  

http://www.chambonino.com/work/miscguitar/misc13.html

ICBM

John Chambers does know what he's doing.

I've worked on a few of those Leo amps as well - I agree they need completely rebuilding. Not least because they're unsafe by modern standards - they need fusing, better mains cable retention and circuit board support. Even when fully fixed they still sound ratty and raspy - in a quite good way if you like that kind of thing, but it's a very limited sound.

In particular, they sound nothing at all like a cranked-up big valve amp but quieter, which is what a lot of the small valve amp market seems to be aimed at. I really don't know why anyone thinks they will do that. If you want the sound of a cranked big valve amp but quieter, you need a big amp and an attenuator, or one with a good master volume.

shaunm

What appealed to me about the small amps and lunch box heads are simply that they fit the following criteria.

- small and I can use it without getting on everyone's nerves

- it looks nice, essentially my wife is going to have to look at a practise amp all the time as its not going to leave the house so it must look nice. This was what appealed to me about the Ofset, it's looks brilliant. 

- I like the tone. I didn't think I'd get an amp that sounded like a 50watt head on full pelt but a good clean tone that takes pedals well is essential to me. 

- I'd prefer a valve amp as a practise amp as I find them more articulate and less forgiving. That way I will be forced to practise in a fashion that will help me remove mistakes. 

When I've been practising through a small solid state I always find that when I come to playing my gig amp at volume there are mistakes that I make that show up under the clarity of a good valve amp. That might just be my perception but I've always thought it to be true.

shuikit

Absolutely years ago, a guy who ran a guitar shop once said to me.

If you've got a Fender (guitar), then put it in a Fender, if you've got a Gibson put it in a Marshall, if you've got a baby, put it in a pram!

Voxman

shuikit said:

Absolutely years ago, a guy who ran a guitar shop once said to me.

If you've got a Fender (guitar), then put it in a Fender, if you've got a Gibson put it in a Marshall, if you've got a baby, put it in a pram!

Interesting - I've not heard of a pram amp before...who makes them?  And do they have a built in power 'brake' or attenuator (or is that perambulator) to keep the baby volume down for home use so that it doesn't interfere with the football?  Clearly though you won't need a Cry Baby with that rig!        ) 

xHymnal

I used to be crazy for a good Fender clean but now I swear by a marshall style clean tone: to my ears a marshall sounding clean takes pedals much better than a Fender. That said, if I weren't using pedals I'd use a Fender sound (for singles and hb's)

Voxman

Hymnal said:

I used to be crazy for a good Fender clean but now I swear by a marshall style clean tone: to my ears a marshall sounding clean takes pedals much better than a Fender. That said, if I weren't using pedals I'd use a Fender sound (for singles and hb's)

Funny you should say that - I really like the clean channel on my DSL401, and it takes pedals brilliantly.

ICBM

The clean channel is surprisingly good on the DSLs - it's the overdrive channel that lets them down! At least with the stock speaker - and to be fair, the 401's is nowhere near as bad as the 201 with it's G12E-50 AKA Rocket 50... the only speaker I can think of which can make a Marshall sound better clean than dirty .

I totally agree about a Marshall clean taking pedals at least as well as a Fender clean, too.

Voxman

ICBM said:

The clean channel is surprisingly good on the DSLs - it's the overdrive channel that lets them down! At least with the stock speaker - and to be fair, the 401's is nowhere near as bad as the 201 with it's G12E-50 AKA Rocket 50... the only speaker I can think of which can make a Marshall sound better clean than dirty .

I totally agree about a Marshall clean taking pedals at least as well as a Fender clean, too.

Having owned both Fender Black & Silver face amps, I'd actually say better!  I had an MXR distortion pedal at the time and I just couldn't get it to really sound ballsy - yet through a Vox AC30, or Marshall, it kicked ass.  The Fender's were just 'too clean'!

Re the DSL401 gain channels, you don't need to change the speaker.  Firstly, jumping the FX loop not only gives you a dB boost (15dB I think but not sure) but it actually tightens up the sound so even the red channel becomes useable.  But.... stick a simple 7-band EQ in the FX loop and it's just staggeringly good - you wouldn't think it's the same amp and turns it into an utter tone monster!  And no way could you get that difference in tone/clarity from just a speaker change (although I'm sure a speaker change would be good).  Next time you get a DSL 401 on the bench, try it.  IIRC the 'jump cable' thing only works with the DSL201 and 401 (parallel loops), not the 50 or 100 DSL's (serial loops)....but you'll know the techy rationale way better than I do, obviously!  

And yeah, Celestion Rocket speakers have to be the most dire speaker I've ever heard hence I dumped it out of my Laney Cub12R and stuck in a Vintage 30.

For classic rock & blues, if I dumped the stock 'Gold' speaker in my DSL401, what would be some good replacement options (I think the speaker is 16 Ohm, yes?) 

ICBM

Voxman said:

Re the DSL401 gain channels, you don't need to change the speaker.  Firstly, jumping the FX loop not only gives you a dB boost (15dB I think but not sure) but it actually tightens up the sound so even the red channel becomes useable.  But.... stick a simple 7-band EQ in the FX loop and it's just staggeringly good - you wouldn't think it's the same amp and turns it into an utter tone monster!  And no way could you get that difference in tone/clarity from just a speaker change (although I'm sure a speaker change would be good).  Next time you get a DSL 401 on the bench, try it.  IIRC the 'jump cable' thing only works with the DSL201 and 401 (parallel loops), not the 50 or 100 DSL's (serial loops)....but you'll know the techy rationale way better than I do, obviously!

For classic rock & blues, if I dumped the stock 'Gold' speaker in my DSL401, what would be some good replacement options (I think the speaker is 16 Ohm, yes?) 

Interesting - I've never tried that.

Agreed that the 'Gold' in the 401 is not too bad. I would still change it though - the V30 sounds better if you want more of that hard rock sound, but I'd expect the G12M-65 and G12H-75 Creambacks to sound great for more classic tones too. The Classic Lead 80 is very modern/heavy if you want more of an alt/metal tone. Yes, you need a 16-ohm speaker really - or you won't be able to run an extension cab at the same time.

Skipped

I think Gibson through a Tweed Fender style amp is a match made in heaven.

If you asked on the  LPF vintage section I think it would be close between the above and Marshall.

matt1973

Trying to think of a good amp and a good guitar that would sound bad together. Hmmm. Without dreaming up silly genre-based mismatches (ex. 12-Ric through a Diezel or some other mega gain thing) it's pretty difficult. 

I'd say good guitar plus good amp equals good tone.

IanSavage

Depends what you want. If you're after a classic rock kinda sound, a humbuckered solid-body Gibson-type into a more modern (i.e. JCM800 or later) Marshall or Marshall-alike will be a good starting point; if you want to play blues or jazz, a Fender or hollow-body Gibson into a Fender amp will give you a better basic sound.

That's the beauty of playing electric guitar; there is no 'best' setup, otherwise everyone who could afford it would have it. 

IanSavage

And as a separate point, having said the above I reckon that in a two-guitar band the band 'sound' can be guided by the blend of guitar/amp that each player has. 

Immediate examples that jump to mind - Thin Lizzy's classic thick 'dual LP-Marshall' sound, AC/DC's 'Marshalls run just biting with different guitars', G'n'R's 'LP-into-Marshall-plus-'lighter'-guitar-into-Fender', Lynard Skynard's wonderful mix of various electrics (and acoustics) into just the right amp, Pearl Jam's (usual, but by no means standard) Gibson-Marshall/Fender-Fender. 

And this doesn't answer the original question at all, because it can't be answered conclusively, but I reckon that if you know the sound that you want there will be certain combinations of amp and guitar that will get you a lot closer than others. 

I may have been drinking, sorry.

Skipped

I think the worst combination I have ever heard was Mark Farner (Grand Funk Railroad) playing a Musicraft Messenger through several West Filmore amps in Hyde Park in the 1970s. When he started playing I thought - there is no way that his sound can possibly get any worse than this.
But then he stood on the HeathKit Fuzz Box.  :-O
It sounded just like the clip below. But worse.







https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPYryroXZZ0

ICBM

matt1973 said:

Trying to think of a good amp and a good guitar that would sound bad together. Hmmm. Without dreaming up silly genre-based mismatches (ex. 12-Ric through a Diezel or some other mega gain thing) it's pretty difficult.

Rick 12-string through Mesa Dual Rectifier Trem-o-verb sounds fantastic, so I see no reason why a Diezel wouldn't .

matt1973

ICBM said:

matt1973 said:

Trying to think of a good amp and a good guitar that would sound bad together. Hmmm. Without dreaming up silly genre-based mismatches (ex. 12-Ric through a Diezel or some other mega gain thing) it's pretty difficult.

Rick 12-string through Mesa Dual Rectifier Trem-o-verb sounds fantastic, so I see no reason why a Diezel wouldn't .

Indeed, I had that thought when reading it back. It's hard to dream up a bad combination.

Gassage

I have a funny take on this- I like a fender tweed breaking up but, ever since hearing Hiwatts, I've never wanted a fender clean sound purely because the Hiwatt clean is vastly vastly superior with or without pedals

p90fool

As someone who as slowly gravitated from Tele/Marshall to Les Paul/Fender over the last few years I'd say there aren't any rules really.

Having said that, it's not easy to find good video demos of a Les Paul bridge pickup played clean into a Fender amp, so it can feel like I'm out on a limb sometimes.
I suspect it's because it requires a deft touch to get the best out of it, whereas whacking it into a dirty JCM800 makes for an easy life.