Effects with separate wet / dry outputs? - advice please

ChrisMusic

What effects have the ability to split the wet and dry outputs, or have a wet only option?

It is a general question about all effect types, but I am particularly interested in delays.

Also can anyone advise what delays have multi-tap option?

Can anyone help please, thanks, Chris

midiglitch

Wet/dry main ones that spring to mind are

Boss dd3, dd7, dd20 (maybe others also)

Vox time machine

Sadly the tc flashback doesn't do this though I would have thought a software update could support it.

BenSirAmos

Back to the LS-2 again - you can put the effect in one loop, nothing (i.e. dry signal) in the other and mix them to taste or you can go into two amps. This is how I used to use an LS-2 and a 808 to act like a Sparkle Drive (which lets you mix wet and dry together but I don't think it has wet and dry outputs)

ChrisMusic

Thanks @midiglitch, I was trying to find a reference on TCs site, your comment explains it's absence. So easy do do, that would be near perfect.

Cheers @BenSirAmos, I appreciate your input, both here and in the other discussion on AB switching too. Yes it's all relevant.  Your method allows mixing of wet / dry from effected signal only pedals like O/D, tremolo, etc, now I need to get effect only from some others too.  LS-2 is looking interesting in this application.

Do other effects have the ability to separate the wet signal?  ie Reverbs etc

BenSirAmos

I still don't know what you are trying to do, but if you want a splitter then a DI box probably gives you most options - you can put the effect on the output that goes to your amp and have the dry signal going to the mixer. 

Usually, it is mixing the two back together again which can give you problems (which is why the LS-2 is useful) but if they are going to be used for different purposes then a DI box works. Whenever I've recorded guitar, I've always put a mic in front of the speaker but I've used a DI to take dry signal to the recorder so that I can add different effects to that track later. 

fretmeister

Info about what you want to achieve will help!

ChrisMusic

Hey guys, thanks for the responses.

I am trying to discover the creative opportunities that are possible with pedals.

Just playing with ideas at the moment, and seeing what can be achieved within a reasonable budget (whatever that is).

Full studio kit allows you to run complex parallel signal paths if you wish, and send and mix as appropriate.  Any of those paths can be sequential efects too.  Separation of wet and dry time based effects allows sounds to be built on the different time elements.

I guess I am trying to see how flexible pedals are in achieving some of the same flexibility.

The A/B question mentioned above is really about signal routing and making it stompable, to save the "tap dance", and the LS-2 also allows a bit of very simple mixing.

The wet / dry question is more specifically about being able to process the wet signal separately, whether by EQ or other effects.

It's also about mixing the outputs from different drives / effects too.

You did ask, I was trying to keep the question simple, I was, honest.  Thanks for your help with this.

BenSirAmos

It still a bit abstract for me - but splitting the signal is relatively simple. I feel your problems will really start when you are trying to mix them back together

Bidley

This video gives some cool ideas, not sure if it's what you're looking for though.

Bidley

Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs.

ChrisMusic

Thanks @Bidley  "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

Is it still a current pedal or has it now been superseded, do you know?

I see dry out on the pic of one, I take it that wet out is available too then?

Just added these for reference.  (I hope you don't mind me re-posting them here)

@Cirrus posted this in another thread on delays

The DD-20 also has seperate dry/wet ins and outs, I'm going from memory here but I THINK on startup there are options for how you set up the pedal: -10/+4db, and stereo or wet/dry on outputs 1 and 2.

@dogload posted this in another thread on delays

My old Arion DDS1 has a dry/ wet out and I'm pretty sure the Electro Harmonix (Big Box) Delay has a wet and dry (my Electric Mistress Deluxe does). But That's old technology. Don't know about new stuff.

Bidley

ChrisMusic said:

Thanks @Bidley  "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

Is it still a current pedal or has it now been superseded, do you know?

I see dry out on the pic of one, I take it that wet out is available too then?

It's been discontinued, but they pop up on eBay fairly regularly.

With the wet out, I presume so. I've never used it as such, I'll have a fiddle when I get chance.

ChrisMusic

Bidley said:

ChrisMusic said:

Thanks @Bidley  "Also, I just noticed my Ibanez DE7 has wet/dry outputs."

With the wet out, I presume so. I've never used it as such, I'll have a fiddle when I get chance.

Thanks @Bidley, if you don't mind I would appreciate that, cheers

ChrisMusic

Cool sounds on the video @Bidley, I should have guessed that EHX would be at the cutting edge of making some weird and beautiful stuff accessible.  Great sounds on that video, thanks for putting it here.

Yes that is a the sort of thing I'm talking about.  Nice to see good use of parallel signal processing.  Looks like I may have to explore the EHX range, cheers.

Hey @BenSirAmos, thanks for the reply, yes a bit abstract maybe, the questions are all about being able to explore, so not with an absolute goal in mind, just flexibility.

I want to be able to separate the main signal from the effected signal where possible, so I have the option of processing just the wet output.

If you try to imagine a reverse reverb that you mixed the original signal into it would be chaotic, and pretty dissonant.  Reverbs also benefit from being able to adjust the pre-delay, if not part of the reverb pedal then a straight wet delay signal would fulfil that function.  Just to give a couple of examples of the wet / dry thing.

I agree bringing parallel paths back together is more complex, there is always the option of what are comparatively cheap rack mount mixers, which would probably do the job if I can't find another solution.  Probably a bit overkill though.

Patching it all together is going to get interesting too.

Bidley

ChrisMusic said:

Cool sounds on the video @Bidley, I should have guessed that EHX would be at the cutting edge of making some weird and beautiful stuff accessible.  Great sounds on that video, thanks for putting it here.

Yes that is a the sort of thing I'm talking about.  Nice to see good use of parallel signal processing.  Looks like I may have to explore the EHX range, cheers.

By EHX you mean Ibanez, surely

ChrisMusic

Hey Bidley, the video you posted was Electro Harmonix pedals, or am I having my nervous breakdown early?

Bidley

No, I'm just an idiot!

The Y-splitter thing can be done with any pedal, as far as I know. It's definitely a cool idea though, I'd never thought of using them!

ChrisMusic

Bidley said:  The Y-splitter thing can be done with any pedal, as far as I know. It's definitely a cool idea though, I'd never thought of using them!

That what I was thinking, those guys know their business, so it must work OK on two pedals, maybe more.  It probably works because it is using the low impedance buffered output of the first pedal in the chain going into two high impedance inputs.  So it would probably be possible to drive more pedals in parallel split this way from just one properly buffered output.

I was more surprised at seeing the two outputs at the other end driving into a Y connector.  I know EHX understand the buffers in their own pedals, but I'm not sure whether it would work OK with mixed manufacturers stuff?

Perhaps @ICBM will cruise past this way and be able to shed some light in this Y connector and in / out impedance issue, and how many pedals it is safe to drive / mix without tone loss or risk to the pedals output buffer.  If not then it is a good question so I may even start a discussion on it alone.

mike257

The TC Flashback x4 has a "dry kill" option on a dip switch under the pedal, might work for you!

ChrisMusic

Thanks @mike257, I have a great respect for TC stuff, this is really good to know.

I don't suppose you know whether the HOF reverb does that too?

steamabacus

As far as I know, the entire toneprint range has the kill dry and true/buffered bypass switching except the vibrato (buffered only)