Planning a new build for next year - PRS Style Vibrato?

ThePrettyDamned

So I'm hopefully going to be making a PRS singlecut style guitar, with the parts arriving around Christmas.  In theory.  

Pickups will be Oil City, obviously, and body and neck is something I'm investigating.  Knobs, wires and pots are axesrus, tuners will be Gotoh lockers probably.  But I'm stuck for the vibrato.  After trying a few USA models (custom 22, 24 and singlecut), I concluded I liked the looks of the singlecut and the vibrato definitely changed the tone for the better, even when not in use.  

So where can I find a PRS vibrato?  Gold would be nice, but not necessary - I'm still working out the colour scheme, but Wudtone amaranthine or blue or grey is likely, so the colour would be fine with gold or aluminium/nickel.  

Any thoughts?

EDIT: It does look like a regular 6 saddle fender bridge, sort of.  So could a Wudtone bridge work, if routed for a vintage style vibrato? I like the idea of the entire guitar being a UK affair, but I really loved the feel of the PRS vibrato.

DamianP

Speak to John Mann.  The guy who designed the original PRS vibrato bridge.

http://www.mannmadeusa.com/

We use his classic bridge on our Rocket model.   His stuff is really well made and works.

John_P

If you weren't already aware of them,  you can buy PRS parts from the distributer Headline  here

They aren't cheap though!

ThePrettyDamned

John_P said:

If you weren't already aware of them,  you can buy PRS parts from the distributer Headline  here

They aren't cheap though!

Bloody hell, too right! I'm not paying that, but I wasn't aware.  Thanks anyway - it gives me a side by side way of comparing bridges.  

DamianP said:

Speak to John Mann.  The guy who designed the original PRS vibrato bridge.

http://www.mannmadeusa.com/

We use his classic bridge on our Rocket model.   His stuff is really well made and works.

That's closer to reasonably priced, but after import costs it might kill me.  Hmm.  It looks very good though, and reviews/opinions seem to suggest it's the best there is! So a very real possibility.  

What are the key differences between a PRS style vibrato and a fender style one, like the Wudtone?  The Wudtone would be more cost effective, and I've no doubt of the quality and customer support, but I don't know if it would have the same string spacing/width etc.  Would it look a bit weird on a PRS style guitar?

This is why I plan so far in advance.  I'll change my mind a dozen times a week till I buy it all :P

ThePrettyDamned

Looks like Wudtone do a MIM spaced bridge, which matches the PRS one for string spacing at 2 1/16".  

rpr

ThePrettyDamned said:

Looks like Wudtone do a MIM spaced bridge, which matches the PRS one for string spacing at 2 1/16".  

Hes got a special offer on at mo, for FB members- not sure if any would fit-http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/3014/wudtone-constant-pivot-bridge-offer-only-for-thefretboard-members

ThePrettyDamned

rpr said:

ThePrettyDamned said:

Looks like Wudtone do a MIM spaced bridge, which matches the PRS one for string spacing at 2 1/16".  

Hes got a special offer on at mo, for FB members- not sure if any would fit-http://thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/3014/wudtone-constant-pivot-bridge-offer-only-for-thefretboard-members

You'll always be Danomess to me.  

Thanks for the reminder! I've just PM'd him.  I've asked someone about the build and he's a proper custom job kinda guy, so he could probably route me a body for this bridge.  I just really liked the string spacing on the PRS guitars I tried, so MIM it is!

Thanks very much. The long process of saving up money has begun.

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

I like the idea of the entire guitar being a UK affair, but I really loved the feel of the PRS vibrato.

It's all down to the setup. Although it looks slightly different, there's no functional difference between a PRS trem and a Strat type.

One difference is that PRS trems come set up with four springs set short rather than three set long, like Fenders. If you set a Fender like that it feels quite different.

I would go for the Wudtone bridge. The only real improvement PRS made was to notch the pivot screws so the bridge can't ride up and down on them, and Wudtone's design takes that a step even further.

(Even though I had a slight disagreement on the old forum with Andy about exactly what happens when a Strat trem slips on the posts! He's absolutely right about how to fix it if you're designing one from scratch.)

PRS did also use a nylon arm bushing and no thread, and although the nylon is a great idea, the lack of thread isn't so much - the PRS arm can tend to work its way out of the bridge in use. Wudtone use threads *and* nylon - best of both worlds.

ThePrettyDamned

I've messaged Andy. I'll get the bridge ASAP, before any other bits if I can get a b stock one.

Thanks for the advice guys. I've heard very good things about the wudtone bridge, and he now sells callaham saddles, so it'll be an absolute top notch thing.

I'll use 4 springs set short then it felt noticeably smoother and stiffer than a fender one. Not stiff in a bad way, just solid and stable with no note wobble (which is exaggerated on 2 point systems). It won't get much trem abuse, but the tone was so much better on the trem equipped guitars.

ICBM

ThePrettyDamned said:

I'll use 4 springs set short then it felt noticeably smoother and stiffer than a fender one. Not stiff in a bad way, just solid and stable with no note wobble (which is exaggerated on 2 point systems).

That sounds like the difference I feel between PRS and Fender trems. I like that solidity and stability of a six-screw trem and hate the warble on a two-point as well.

ThePrettyDamned said:

 It won't get much trem abuse, but the tone was so much better on the trem equipped guitars.

Do you mean on PRSs, with trem vs stoptail? If so I completely agree with you, but the "consensus" seems to be the other way round!

ThePrettyDamned

Yeah, exactly. The stop tail one sounded okay, but not special, and lacked liveliness? Not sure how else to put it. Like the jazzmaster - if you mute behind the bridge, it doesn't sound as good! It has strat pickups but it doesn't sound like a strat, really. Pretty unique!

Consensus in the guitar world is something I ignore whenever I can. I remember thinking only a valve amp can sound good, but a peavey bandit sounds ace, and a Marshall mg has fair cleans through a nice cab, and absolutely bone crushing gain. Not a sound I like, and fizzy, but good for heavier punk or proper doom stuff. The new bandits are good for a lot, but don't do the sound I like (Tremonti tone - Bognor uberschall, though he now uses two rocks as well?). I think the amt stone head can do it though, it's a "dkent" sort of tone - heavy, but not a lot of actual distortion.

andypwudtone

hi guys, a customer came to collect a guitar today. By pure chance he had a PRS guitar with him, fitted with the slotted screw type trem bridge you refer to above. It was a v nice fabrication which was floated ( pivoting on the slots in the screwss) and returned to pitch well, ( err, needs to for  £230 - £330 ) . Without wanting to be too critical of a very good product, I think it is going to deliver a different level of sustain/ tone when compared to a bridge that is actually connected to the body of the guitar like an old vintage trem on a strat or our TVT.  Anyway, on the guitar I looked at, it had  2 1/16 spacing and was floated abt 2-3mm above the body so I reckon the MIM version of our TVT bridge would actually retrofit without modification onto a PRS with this type of bridge. In terms of the detail of how our Wudtone TVT ( Tuned Vintage Trem) stays connected to the body, whilst pivoting around a single place to keep tune. pls see image below. 

The pivot point (red dot ) stays constant  and the green arrows show the range of contact point between the bridge plate and the body ( or .5mm shim ( see label5 ) we supply)   as it is being used. You don't have to fit the shim but it helps to spread the load on the body, increases the contact area and ( a smear of 3in1 doesn't go amiss ) gives a lower friction metal to metal contact where the bridge slides over it. This increases the sensitivity, improves feel especially for the light chord shimmer type of use. Some customers also remove a bit of finish, wood essentially to recess the shim ( only requires .5mm depth) , so it sits level with the body. I don't bother,  but they swear it helps the tone even more. I can understand that if it is then sat on bare wood rather than some spongy plastic finish or if they have the bridge decked as then there will be maximum bridge  to body contact. Also because the bridge is machined from C75 H&T carbon steel ( 1470nmm2) hardened material and it doesn't then get bent up at the back and then heat treated. It is perfectly flat underneath ( you will see if you look closely most other bridges that are bent / heat treated are not usually actually flat underneath , they are usually convex). 

 

Anyway , if anyone here has a PRS guitar , or is building a PRS type project with 2 1/16 mounting holes and wants to experience what a difference our bridge will make. feel free to PM me. chrs Andy Preston 

ThePrettyDamned

Just so you all know, bridge arrived today and it's fantastic quality on first inspection. Really looking forward to giving it a whirl, I like the prs one so this should go down a treat

And, as always, Andy has given excellent advice regarding everything I've asked him, be it the bridge or his finishing kits. He's a good one.