Talk me out of wanting to become a luthier!

Hertz32

Hey chaps, 

 I've been thinking about moving into guitar building for a while now, although I'm not sure how to go about it. 

 Some background on me: 

 I'm 17, and in my first year at 6th form studying BTEC Business (Extended diploma), Biology A level, and Philosophy and Ethics A levels.

Following 6th form, I'll be looking at universities although I'd rather not go. I'd like to take a gap year in order to save up money, and then go to do something music related, such as a Degree at ICMP, or an apprenticeship with an established luthier.

 I'm fully aware making a living out of guitars is incredibly hard work if you just have the one income source, so teaching guitar and being a luthier as well appeals to me. Especially if it allows me to have an originals band in the evenings too. 

What I'd really like to know is, Where can I learn to be a luthier? and is this a pipe dream, or can I make it a reality if I really strive to be the best? (Which I fully intend to do!) 

@WezV @Felineguitars @Jaden ;

TTony

Ahhh .. the life of a luthier.

Years of developing your skills to the level of expert craftsman.  Invest in the £thousands of tools that you need for your trade.  And if you're lucky, someone will agree to pay you minimum wage to use your talents and skills rather than buying something off a Chinese production line.

But invariably you won't be that lucky, and you'll have to teach spotty 10yos who think they're the next [insert name of currently cool guitarist] just so that you can afford to heat the can of baked beans (or toast the bread - one of the other) for your evening meal.

But don't let me put you off ...

WezV

If your thread title is serious I may be the right person to ask.

1) Money & Time   making a living selling British built guitars is pretty hard, you can certainly make a lot more money doing something else, which is exactly why I make a lot more money doing something else.  having a back up plan is a good idea but the more time you do something else to make money the less time you have for guitars

2) Variation & originality.   I don't like building the same design over and over again.   I want variety.   when i was making a significant part of my income from guitars I ended up making a hell of a lot of telecasters.  Its all good, i like telecasters.  but I ended up doing less and less  of my own designs.   but tele commissions could be done quicker and easier which becomes something you have to consider when its your livelihood.   then i build something i want to and end up having to sell it significantly cheaper

3) limited market. There seem to be more and more new luthiers popping up all the time, and honestly there just isn't a market to support it.   The weak secondhand market and increase in people building their customs themselves doesn't help this.  

4) increased customer expectations of perfection.   for some reason a lot of guitarists somehow expect a handmade guitar to be more perfect than a cnc made one. this is not always true if your definition of perfect is "aesthetically flawless".  of course, many new luthiers now use CNC too.   its all good.   just be aware that the "hand of the maker" is not something most guitarists expect to see in a hand made guitar

its up to you though, i wouldn't actually discourage you if its what you truly want.... but build a few guitars before you make that decision

Its a great hobby I love, as a full time job... its not for me

FelineGuitars

My honest advice is to get a solid diploma or degree in something that you can always fall back into.

In fact - learn to be a plumber or something where you have a license to make money and study the guitar thing in your spare time till you have enough experience to make a start in that field.

The courses in guitar making will teach you to make a guitar but wont leave you equipped to become a full time repairer.

Nobody has ever asked to see a qualification certificate in luthiery I suspect, although the abilities you pickup through practicing that art-form will be the building blocks of any future in it.

My own A levels were Chemistry/Physics/maths and the degree course I set off on before guitar obsessions derailed it was an applied Physics degree. I did spend a number of years using that science background for employment, although in reality I spent 8 years in customer services roles including a few in a call centre (which did hone my troubleshooting and customer communications skills).

My entry in full time luthiery has been more bloody-mindedness than anything else, but it's taken decades to have enough money to buy a round of drinks.

One of the problems ahead is that there is becoming less and less of a career path as a musician - bands don't make money recording or playing live so it seems, and that may mean potentially less customers, although most players I see are hobby players.

I feel if I was older and had started 10 years before I might have been there doing my own thing during the 80s boom-time for guitars, whereas I didn't even start working in a guitar workshop till 1987 and it was a long time till I was going to run my own show.

You'll have to do what your heart tells you, but if having and providing for a family is in your plans and owning your own home, you may do well to think twice about the musical pathway.

hywelg

http://www.lincolncollege.ac.uk/school-musical-instrument-crafts

Not that dear either so I'm told.

usedtobe

You'd be better off selling blow jobs, tbh, mate!

TTony

I felt a guilty after my first reply to this thread.

If you can't have a life dream when you're 17, you're never going to have one.  And if you don't try to follow it when you're 17, you'll never have a better opportunity to.

That said, have you ever considered becoming an astronaut?

Or ... 

The courses that Mark Bailey runs was a life-changer for me.  It's very intense, but you'll learn a huge amount, and you'll find out whether you've got the aptitude for building guitars.  You'll also have an opportunity to talk to a gifted luthier about the realities of the luthiering business.  And you'll also build a stonkingly good guitar.  It's absolutely NOT a classroom set-up - it's purely hands-on, but Mark is an excellent teacher and you'll learn a huge amount on one of his courses.  

randomhandclaps

Talk you out of it?  OK... when I grew up I had a group of mates (there were 6 of us).  We were so close we were like brothers.  I took a lot of stick because I took a job in a studio whilst the other 5 went off to luthier school.  Anyhow all 5 were brutally murdered in separate incidences over the years by right wing tree-huggers.  I on the other hand am still alive and kicking.

hywelg

randomhandclaps said:

 I on the other hand am still alive and kicking.

For now........... mwwhahah hahaha






and aren't most tree huggers left wing???

Jaden

Do it for fun, then when you can, do it for profit.. and I mean profit, not £50 more than the parts cost you like most of the idiots that are popping up lately.

another way of looking at it is do you wanna ruin your hobby by making it your job ?

other people have already said the rest really... it is tough, go find out how many guys make their living at it fulltime.. not many.

remember, do it for fun.

this is what I did before I started - https://www.linkedin.com/pub/jaden-rose/a7/989/76

randomhandclaps

hywelg said:

and aren't most tree huggers left wing???

Believe it or not that's a really common misconception.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a579/imadray/Treehugging_zps4fa2cda3.jpg

Rocker

I would not like to be the one to shatter your dream @Hertz32 but the cliched 'making my living from my hobby' is, in reality, a myth.

One way that you could become a luthier is by working for a company that builds guitars/ukes/mandolins/musical instruments etc.

Another way is to build instruments yourself either from the ground up or farming out the work of building some components and completing the assembly yourself.  This is where reality bites and it bites hard.  To produce a product for sales around the £400 mark, you must build it for £100.  In other words you build it for 25% of its selling price.  Not an easy ask.

In addition you need to add something new/interesting to the product, something that the mainstream established manufacturers have ignored or failed to think of.  Another big ask.

Hertz32

Cheers for your insight guys, i appreciate it. And it's certainly more useful than my parents reactions of "thats not a real job" and "you cant make a living out of music" I'll shall try and follow your advice

JD50

You could also study joinery, that way you can diversify into other stuff to pay the bills whilst honing you're wood working skills for the guitar.

joeyowen

From my point of view, the potential buyer, a new Luthier makes guitar, looks great, well done! Nice camera to take pics, my interest is there.

But, and it's a big but,

• I'm most likely not local to you, so I can't try it.  So I'll be buying 'blind' which is a big big gamble.  Plus, if I didn't like it, I don't want the hassle of returning an item that big
  
• The effort/time/cost probs mean it won't be cheap, so I'll be inclined to buy a trusted brand from a trusted shop instead, not offence to you of course, but it is my hard earned money
  
• However if it was too cheap, you can price yourself under the market, eg  "It's only £200, it probs won't be any good" (not that I have any idea you pricing plans)
  
• Reviews, I always like to read reviews on products, and not the reviews the makers decide to put on their site, something less bias, eg Thomann/amazon etc. You would need to get onto to these to get some honest feedback for potential buyers

So, even if you satisfy all the above points, why would I buy yours instead of Fender etc..? How can you make yourself stand out?

I really and sincerely hope you make good of your dreams, and I'll be happy to be wrong on all the above.  However if you love making guitars, how do you wind down if you have a bad day making guitars?  Keep it as a hobby, and make some money if you can.  Then, if you have a lousy day in work, come home, smile and build.  Don't ever turn hobbies into chores

VimFuego

just as a counterpoint to what's been written here (not that it's bad advice). I bought my fiddle of a lady who runs her own luthier business, her business model consists of (in ascending order of income) making violins/violas/cellos, restoring old ones and selling them, selling new violins of various grades, carrying out set ups, repairs and services to violins and bows (things like rehairs). She also sells ancillary stuff like strings, rosin, chin rests, shoulder rests, bows and so on. She works from a large shed in her garden (which was incredibly cramped, she's probably at capacity now). I would say (without prying into her finances) she does OK, she makes a living doing something she enjoys. I would say she's only able to do this because she can set up in her back garden, if she had to pay rent somewhere I guess it'd be more challenging.

Where she wins is she is well respected in the area (she's also the only specialist in the North Devon area) and people are happy to give her business over the internet box shifters.

I guess my point is that it can be done (as it clearly is being done) so I say go for it, you'll have to work hard at it, and at first be flexible about your income streams but it is doable. The last thing you want is to get to 50 and look back with regret at the things you didn't try. You only get one life and no rehearsal, so you gotta get it right the 1st time.

imalone

VimFuego said:

just as a counterpoint to what's been written here (not that it's bad advice). I bought my fiddle of a lady who runs her own luthier business, her business model consists of (in ascending order of income) making violins/violas/cellos, restoring old ones and selling them, selling new violins of various grades, carrying out set ups, repairs and services to violins and bows (things like rehairs). She also sells ancillary stuff like strings, rosin, chin rests, shoulder rests, bows and so on. She works from a large shed in her garden (which was incredibly cramped, she's probably at capacity now). I would say (without prying into her finances) she does OK, she makes a living doing something she enjoys. I would say she's only able to do this because she can set up in her back garden, if she had to pay rent somewhere I guess it'd be more challenging.

There was a radio 4 program a while back about violin makers in Italy (possibly Cremona, but not sure). They make very high end instruments, to the point where the person commissioning it will come along, try a few examples, talk with them about what they want and then may or may not decide to order one. A luthier makes about 12 a year, but this is the world centre for making them, selling to the top players.
Think this was it: http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p01wgcdd

VimFuego

thanks for that, will have a listen later.

slash1953

Hertz32 said:

Hey chaps, 

 I've been thinking about moving into guitar building for a while now, although I'm not sure how to go about it. 

 Some background on me: 

 I'm 17, and in my first year at 6th form studying BTEC Business (Extended diploma), Biology A level, and Philosophy and Ethics A levels.

Following 6th form, I'll be looking at universities although I'd rather not go. I'd like to take a gap year in order to save up money, and then go to do something music related, such as a Degree at ICMP, or an apprenticeship with an established luthier.

 I'm fully aware making a living out of guitars is incredibly hard work if you just have the one income source, so teaching guitar and being a luthier as well appeals to me. Especially if it allows me to have an originals band in the evenings too. 

What I'd really like to know is, Where can I learn to be a luthier? and is this a pipe dream, or can I make it a reality if I really strive to be the best? (Which I fully intend to do!) 

@WezV @Felineguitars @Jaden ;

Im a full time luthier/guitar tech.I just built up my client base and when I realised I was making more money than my other job,I went full time.Not easy,you have to put up with idiots who like to call late at night to talk about their £3500 PRS (that was one clients opening line at 10.45 at night)but on the other hand the amount of nice guys outweighs it.

pmbomb

you're 17.

do wtf moves you, have at it.

look up those "what people say on their death beds" quote pages. one of them is "I wish I'd been braver and done what I really wanted to".

there's every chance your journey will lead somewhere different to what you expect, that's OK.

go to it.

FelineGuitars

pmbomb said:

you're 17.

do wtf moves you, have at it.

look up those "what people say on their death beds" quote pages. one of them is "I wish I'd been braver and done what I really wanted to".

there's every chance your journey will lead somewhere different to what you expect, that's OK.

go to it.

He must be 20 now - this thread is 3 years old and has been resurrected today