NAD Ruined....Already need a Diagnosis.

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BellycasterBellycaster Frets: 5834
edited January 2015 in Amps
NAD ruined :-(

So I was excited to receive my new Mesa Boogie Express 5:50 Combo (older version, which is new, ie: not used) this morning. However on switching it on I am instantly aware of a Fluffy type background noise, sort of fluffy, crackling noise.

I looked at the Power Tubes on the back and one of them seems to have a very noticable blue tinge to it, more so than the other one which seems to mostly glow orange. I can't see the preamp tubes. The amp sounds nice tonewise but if you turn it up even slightly you instantly notice this background noise. I followed the procedure on switching on correctly with the stand by etc.

Totally pissed off, I could do without the hassle of having to return this amp. I was also promised by the shop (Steven James Guitars) that their amp tech would check it out before it left, this is unlikely as no amp tech on the planet would not notice this. They also assured me the amp was in pristine condition, erm, no it's not. Could this have happened in transit?

Could do with a diagnosis and I will now have to ring the shop, I may have to return it or maybe they could knock some more money off if it needs re tubing, but there may be other lurking issues I don't know about. So returning may be the only option.

Thanks for any help.
Only a Fool Would Say That.
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Comments

  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Blue glow in power valves is entirely normal and nothing to worry about, and is not always uniform between the two valves.

    If the noise doesn't occur until you turn the volume up, it's coming from the preamp not the power amp. Which controls affect it, either volume- or tone-wise? All, or just (for example) the Output Level?

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    Almost certainly a valve problem. It is possible to replace one pair, rather than all of them in one go.

    In my experience Mesas seem to sound best when fitted with Mesa valves - no doubt because they test them to be within a certain performance 'range' - other brands seem hit and miss - though they probably came from the same supplier.

    Rather than return the amp I would e-mail the dealer a photo of the valve and ask them to send you a replacement pair to see if it cures the problem.

    I have recently completely revalved my Lonestar Special and its transformed its sound.

    Incidentally I bought them on Amazon - the order was fulfilled by Hotrox - at a lower price than advertised on their own website and with free delivery.

    You shouldn't be paying out any money at all in this instance though.

    Sorry to hear it's spoiled the experience. It should be easily fixable though.
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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    edited January 2015
    Sorry to hear that J as I know you were so looking forward to getting this and that's not what you want to happen,. However, but based on what the guys ^^ have said, hopefully, there's an easy remedy and there's no way you should be paying for this. As richardhomer said, get the shop to post you a new of valves.

    All the best,

    KK
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  • p90foolp90fool Frets: 31368
    Before you do anything, try re-seating all the valves. I've had a similar thing happen to an amp in transit, just give them all a gentle wiggle from side-to-side as you make sure they're fully home.

    It probably won't be the cause, but you need to eliminate it first, especially if the seller is convinced it was fine when it left them.
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  • Thanks @ICBM and @richardhomer

    That sets my mind at rest about the blue glow, I did think that was abnormal, but not so. To answer ICBM, the issue does indeed occur when turning up the Master Volume or the Gain or both. The EQ controls don't seem to aggravate or lessen it, they just make it sound different.

    I've also tried with and without Footswitch connected (same noise), 2 different Guitar Cables, plus different 4 gangs/extensions (like that would cause anything anyway)

    I did also hear a sort of high pitch whistling noise coming from it too. Things definitely amiss, totally pissed off.

    Can't really see the pre amp valves on this model, Richard. I have had to call the shop anyway as they were due to close. The guy says the amp was sound when it left, I have my doubts though, although I suppose anything can happen in transit, it was UPS Delivered which is about as good as you can hope for.

    Anyway, upshot, the guy is going to arrange for it to be picked up from my address and sent to Westside Distribution for them to sort out. Can they fix things??? Or just distribute things?

    The Guitar tone is wonderful oddly enough, just when you stop playing, but I have only had it on lowish volume(except for diagnosing obviously)

    Can't find the sodding serial number on the bugger either, I'll have to google for clues.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    If the gain affects it the problem will almost certainly be V1, the first preamp valve nearest the input jack. High-pitched whistling is also a sign of a faulty preamp valve usually - possibly the same one. Make sure you report both faults in case it isn't!

    Westside Distribution do have a service engineer, although they also contract out more complex repairs.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • richardhomerrichardhomer Frets: 24793
    Sounds like the shop are dealing with your problem properly - that's good to hear.

    It will be absolutely fine once it's fixed.
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  • Thanks @Kebabkid and @p90fool

    I wouldn't trust myself to get my hand in the back of the amp and try my own adjustments unfortunately I am a bit cack handed with unfamiliar things. I'm not familiar with how they seat or anything.

    It's a bit of a worry if things can come loose this easily, amps have to be carted around for gigs, granted this has traveled a fair few more miles than just running back and forth to a gig, but still.

    It would have been an option for them just to send some more tubes, but I had to ring them and the guy set out the plan mentioned in my above post. I suppose it can be checked out thoroughly this way too.

    I hope this isn't going to become a recurring problem. I don't know the best way to pack an amp but when I opened it, there seemed a bit too much potential for movement in the box, only some polystyrene corner blocks, but it was not padded out with any other material (bubble wrap etc), but then I don't know what's best.

    I don't think I am paying for the transit, he didn't say one way or the other, he was nice about things. I am assuming that I wont be paying naturally as it is a fault on their part or the Courier.

    Thanks guys.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • Drew_TNBDDrew_TNBD Frets: 22445
    Open it up dude. You'll be fine. Just like plugging in a lightbulb. Take a small dry cloth, press it over the top of the valves, and wiggle them into place gently. 

    It could just be a dodgy phase inverter tube. I've had that happen before, with the exact description you've mentioned.
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  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    It shouldn't be hard to change v1 for another 12ax7 you have lying around. Sending the amp back for what sounds like a dud preamp valve seems a bit excessive
    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
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  • KebabkidKebabkid Frets: 3301
    edited January 2015
    @Bellycaster - J, I had a 5:50 2x12 that got carted around to and from gigs and rehearsal studios for a couple of years and being the heavy bugger that it was, it wasn't always eased down gently to the ground on its castors. It also rattled around when in my car as there's a phenomenal amount of speed bumps in my area. I never had a problem with it and so don't lose faith. These are well-built and solid amps.

    I've spoken to Westside before and their tech guys seem knowledgeable. Whether they have an in-house engineer or contract out, you should be in good hands.

    There's a really good guy called *Peter (Finnish chap) at Westside shop on Denmark St in London. A chat to him might also help allay your worries and he knows his onions ;)

    Keep us posted and all the best

    *EDIT:Peter Honoré
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  • strtdv said:
    It shouldn't be hard to change v1 for another 12ax7 you have lying around. Sending the amp back for what sounds like a dud preamp valve seems a bit excessive
    Don't have any 12AX7's "lying around", mate. I don't think it's excessive to send a faulty item back though.

    It might be very easy to adjust like @Drew_fx says.

    Thanks both of you anyway.
    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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  • strtdvstrtdv Frets: 2356
    Bellycaster;472731" said:

    Don't have any 12AX7's "lying around", mate. I don't think it's excessive to send a faulty item back though.

    It might be very easy to adjust like @Drew_fx says.

    Thanks both of you anyway.
    Have you any other amps? You could borrow one just to test.

    If you email them explaining the issue they may send you a replacement 12ax7 just to try, as it's cheaper for them to do that if there's a reasonable chance it'll fix it than to ship an amp there and back
    Robot Lords of Tokyo, SMILE TASTE KITTENS!
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  • Bellycaster;472731" said:
    strtdv said:

    It shouldn't be hard to change v1 for another 12ax7 you have lying around. Sending the amp back for what sounds like a dud preamp valve seems a bit excessive





    Don't have any 12AX7's "lying around", mate. I don't think it's excessive to send a faulty item back though.

    It might be very easy to adjust like @Drew_fx says.

    Thanks both of you anyway.
    I'd definitely replace the 12ax7 first - you're going to need to replace a valve sooner or later because eventually they do just crap out as they're consumables. I've had valves go duff in new amps before, it's not a sign that the amp's faulty, it just happens sometimes so it is a really good idea to make sure you've got one or two spares just as you'd have a spare set of strings.
    It's as well to get familiar with the process of changing dead valves in your new Mesa (congrats btw) so that it if happens at a rehearsal or gig you can at least replace it during the break or whatever and carry on using the amp rather than mothball it till you can get it to the shop.
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  • boogiemanboogieman Frets: 12314
    I wouldn't be messing about with it, if you tinker with valves etc the shop then have an excuse to accuse you of causing any issues down the line. Let them sort it out, then if it's still not right you can reject it and get a full refund.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Unless you're very clumsy or unlucky, there's no way a shop will be able to tell if you've tried a new preamp valve in it.

    Personally I would not want to subject an amp to two courier journeys before at least trying the simplest fix for the most likely cause. It it turns out not to be that, then yes by all means send it back (with the original valve back in!).

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    It might be no help at all but i have 3 pre-amp valves here that came out of my old JTM30 combo. They say 'ECC 83' on the side, which i *Think* is the same as 12 AX7, but i'm not entirely sure. I was told at the time they worked fine and didn't need changing but i insisted on new ones while the tech did the power valves.

    He gave me them back as spares and they have sat in the cupboard since.

    I have no idea where you are based but these are sat here in Bedford if you're close and want to try them, you can have them.
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  • ICBMICBM Frets: 71960
    Alnico said:
    It might be no help at all but i have 3 pre-amp valves here that came out of my old JTM30 combo. They say 'ECC 83' on the side, which i *Think* is the same as 12 AX7, but i'm not entirely sure.
    Yes, they are. If they're the originals from the Marshall they will be relabelled standard 90s Chinese 12AX7s, which are decent valves usually.

    "Take these three items, some WD-40, a vise grip, and a roll of duct tape. Any man worth his salt can fix almost any problem with this stuff alone." - Walt Kowalski

    "Just because I don't care, doesn't mean I don't understand." - Homer Simpson

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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    ICBM said:
    Alnico said:
    It might be no help at all but i have 3 pre-amp valves here that came out of my old JTM30 combo. They say 'ECC 83' on the side, which i *Think* is the same as 12 AX7, but i'm not entirely sure.
    Yes, they are. If they're the originals from the Marshall they will be relabelled standard 90s Chinese 12AX7s, which are decent valves usually.
    Great......

    If you're not too far away @Bellycaster, you could throw (gently) your amp in the car and come over here - i'm no genius but i could change pre amp valves carefully without leaving any tell tale signs and i've even got a big unopened packet of digestive biscuits !

    Totally up to you but i'm free today if you are and i'm glad to help.
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  • That's very kind @Alnico thank you. I'm a sucker for Tea and a packet of biscuits ;-)

    I'm in Sheffield, I'm not sure where you are but today is a bit hectic.

    I can see where you are all coming from with suggesting I try the fix, I am aware it will have to go through 2 more courier journeys (at least). Anyway, the amp is packed away now, but the guy is going to ring me tomorrow and I might throw this at him, re the tubes, we'll see what occurs.

    Like I've said before though I am very cack handed, unless I'm totally familiarised with something.


    Only a Fool Would Say That.
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