So once again.... the FX loop experiment has come to an end..

Drew_TNBD

LOL. I just don't like post-distortion effects. Delays get lost in the mix, and aren't as prominent as I'd like, and reverbs turn into some bad 80's cop movie.

I'd much rather put the reverb and delay in front of the amp and dial the mix extremely low in order to clean it up somewhat. Still has a "gluey" character, and things are just more prominent and soundscapey that way. It must just my stupid brain, but anyway... this is how I roll!

So right now, as much as I love it, the Timebender is off my board for the time being. I think I've got a really nice equilibrium with mah Boss's... it's a really simple setup now. Way more simpler than anything I've had in the past...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/630473/BoardDesigns/board2015.jpg

I've taken my tubescreamer and MXR Micro Amp off the board at the moment, but the tubescreamer might have to go back on as we've got a few songs where I do volume swells with the volume pedal, and I always used to use the tubescreamer to level it out a bit. I noticed the lack of it today.

The only problems with this board really:

- Boss buffers adding noise

- Phase 90 isn't quite the sound I need for some songs; some songs need the OTA Small Stone style phase, and others need the FET style of the Phase 90

- My tap tempo cable that goes to both delays does cause a tiny bit of hum when it is next to the power supply, not sure how to fix it

- Realistically I could get the whole thing even smaller. I might make a custom box and ditch the PT2; not 100% sure on that yet.

All in all, tubescreamer aside, this is everything I will ever need for a live setup! Anything more than this, and I get lost... my brain starts farting out and I can't compute.

RaymondLin

You need to move the cable away from the Power Supply, it sounds like it is not shielded. 

Drew_TNBD

Yeah it does make a difference if I move it around. It's a bodged DIY jobby, so I probably need to get a proper Y cable.

Nerine

I'll have to totally disagree with you there.
I think time and modulation effects usually almost always sound better post distortion. There are some sounds and exceptions to the rule though.

Drew_TNBD

Nerine said:

I'll have to totally disagree with you there.
I think time and modulation effects usually almost always sound better post distortion. There are some sounds and exceptions to the rule though.

>:) whhheeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! we're all difffferrruuuunnntttttt! >:)

randomhandclaps

Drew_fx said:

I just don't like post-distortion effects.

Surely this is the greatest possible position you can be in as a guitarist?  No worrying about shit or non-existent fx loops when choosing amps.

DesVegas

I have some distortions at the front of the chain and some after the delays so I can chose between the two. Arn't I bloody clever

Drew_TNBD

randomhandclaps said:

Drew_fx said:

I just don't like post-distortion effects.

Surely this is the greatest possible position you can be in as a guitarist?  No worrying about shit or non-existent fx loops when choosing amps.

Aye pretty much! I wish I could do something about the noise floor though. It's fine in a live and rehearsal situation, but for recording... it's a bit bait.... as the Lundun kids would say.

steamabacus

For recording, you could just use a separate off-board power supply - temporarily swap the power cables into the pedals for new ones to the off-board supply, switch off the on-board power. If it wasn't for the MXR, I'd say just use batteries. Maybe batteries for the Bosses and a decent wall wart to the Phase 90?

monquixote

I've currently got the most complex rig I've ever had (all in front of the amp though). 

I did have one brief moment of WTF am I doing today when I couldn't get it all working together properly, but now it seems really lush so we will see how I get on tomorrow at practice.

Drew_TNBD

steamabacus said:

For recording, you could just use a separate off-board power supply - temporarily swap the power cables into the pedals for new ones to the off-board supply, switch off the on-board power. If it wasn't for the MXR, I'd say just use batteries. Maybe batteries for the Bosses and a decent wall wart to the Phase 90?

Sorry boss man, not sure what you're meaning here? You mean to cure the tempo cable hum, or to cure the noise-floor? The cable is caused by it not being properly shielded I believe, and the hum is caused by the low quality Boss buffers.

Drew_TNBD

monquixote said:

I've currently got the most complex rig I've ever had (all in front of the amp though). 

I did have one brief moment of WTF am I doing today when I couldn't get it all working together properly, but now it seems really lush so we will see how I get on tomorrow at practice.

Post a pic! I'm curious!

ThePrettyDamned

Maybe the gain brings it out when in front of the amp.

Are they near the PSU? Maybe that is introducing a bit of noise. I've not noticed the boss buffers being poor in the delay pedals, but I have noticed some pedals are noisier when near the power supply before.

ThePrettyDamned

Otherwise, boss, sort your shit. You have top quality delay pedals that absolutely slay. Give them a worthy buffer.

steamabacus

Drew_fx said:

steamabacus said:

For recording, you could just use a separate off-board power supply - temporarily swap the power cables into the pedals for new ones to the off-board supply, switch off the on-board power. If it wasn't for the MXR, I'd say just use batteries. Maybe batteries for the Bosses and a decent wall wart to the Phase 90?

Sorry boss man, not sure what you're meaning here? You mean to cure the tempo cable hum, or to cure the noise-floor? The cable is caused by it not being properly shielded I believe, and the hum is caused by the low quality Boss buffers.

Well, won't help any problems inherent in the Boss buffers but will help with any proximity interference from the power supply picked up by the interconnects and the tap tempo cable. Even screened interconnects can pick up suprising amounts of hum when close to a transformer. Even the exact orientation of the cable (i.e in which direction it runs through the field of the transformer) can cause quite a difference. This is exactly the reason why balanced cabling is used in studios and why the wiring layout inside an amp can make a lot of difference to noise floor. Where exactly is the psu? Under the Boss pedals end?

monquixote

Drew_fx said:

monquixote said:

I've currently got the most complex rig I've ever had (all in front of the amp though). 

I did have one brief moment of WTF am I doing today when I couldn't get it all working together properly, but now it seems really lush so we will see how I get on tomorrow at practice.

Post a pic! I'm curious!

Forgot to while I had it out today, but I'll try and take a snap at practice tomorrow. 

I'm using the Switch Dr I had off you and controlling an Echolution 2 with MIDI. It's not complex by some peoples standards, but it's a head twister for me as I like you get easily freaked out by complex stuff. 

I was cursing today as I don't have enough loops for everything and the MIDI triggering of the bypass switch on the Echolution is a toggle so it's no use for presets. Got around it by having a patch with zero mix which all the non delay patches switch it to. It's actually no different to having it bypassed as it's not TB anyway.

My other great plan which didn't come off was to control a Bogner Blue with the amp control jacks, but that didn't work out as the Bogner is momentary and the Switch Dr is latching. I've ended up sticking with the MXR Badass OD I was already using and putting it in the same loop as my Velvet fuzz as I never use both in the same song. That's allowed me to get the Boss Overtone in the loops and I'm really liking it at the moment.

Drew_TNBD

steamabacus said:

Drew_fx said:

steamabacus said:

For recording, you could just use a separate off-board power supply - temporarily swap the power cables into the pedals for new ones to the off-board supply, switch off the on-board power. If it wasn't for the MXR, I'd say just use batteries. Maybe batteries for the Bosses and a decent wall wart to the Phase 90?

Sorry boss man, not sure what you're meaning here? You mean to cure the tempo cable hum, or to cure the noise-floor? The cable is caused by it not being properly shielded I believe, and the hum is caused by the low quality Boss buffers.

Well, won't help any problems inherent in the Boss buffers but will help with any proximity interference from the power supply picked up by the interconnects and the tap tempo cable. Even screened interconnects can pick up suprising amounts of hum when close to a transformer. Even the exact orientation of the cable (i.e in which direction it runs through the field of the transformer) can cause quite a difference. This is exactly the reason why balanced cabling is used in studios and why the wiring layout inside an amp can make a lot of difference to noise floor. Where exactly is the psu? Under the Boss pedals end?

Oh yeah totally understand all that, building a studio at work right now as it happens! The PSU is a Voodoo Labs PP2+. It's under the phase 90 and the first DD7. The pedals themselves being close to the PP2+ don't pickup noise. It's when the tt cable is too close to the PSU. It's very very slight, and I'm just being uber picky.

ThePrettyDamned said:

Maybe the gain brings it out when in front of the amp.

That's exactly the case. Out of all of the delays I've used, the TC Nova Delay and Boss DD7 were the most susceptible to adding noise when in front of a high-gain amp. The least susceptible believe it or not was the Line 6 M9, but I got bored of those delay tones a long time ago. They're too washy and don't cut through. I love the Boss ones, because they really do cut through!

ThePrettyDamned said:

Otherwise, boss, sort your shit. You have top quality delay pedals that absolutely slay. Give them a worthy buffer.

ahaha. Yeah adding a buffer isn't really going to improve anything I don't think.

Drew_TNBD

DesVegas said:

I have some distortions at the front of the chain and some after the delays so I can chose between the two. Arn't I bloody clever

Which distortions do you have?

DesVegas

@drew_fx right now i have the raygun fx soda drive post delay and an eno ocd clone going into an hardwire sc-2 pre delay. i also have a couple of zoom ms's in between them which can add to the grit party too if they want.

I used to only use the drive channel on my bandit but now much prefer pedals into the clean.

It's all pretty low end stuff price wise i know but i spend all my money on hookers and crack.

Drew_TNBD

DesVegas said:

@drew_fx right now i have the raygun fx soda drive post delay and an eno ocd clone going into an hardwire sc-2 pre delay. i also have a couple of zoom ms's in between them which can add to the grit party too if they want.

I used to only use the drive channel on my bandit but now much prefer pedals into the clean.

It's all pretty low end stuff price wise i know but i spend all my money on hookers and crack.

LAD.

guitarfishbay

Drew, have you explored not using the pedals for recording and instead using FX from the Kemper or VST?  Might be worth a quick try, since you've already got all the stuff?