Help to break away from pure pentatonics

dhaywood67

Hi, I've been playing for countless years now but have never pushed myself to get out from the comfort zone of lead work in pentatonics. Now the band I'm in is finally starting to gig a bit more regularly I'd like to develop a bit more interesting solos for the couple of tracks that are my responsibility. Basically EVERYTHING I solo over is done in pentatonics ONLY! Yes, occasionally I manage to add an odd note outside that but on the whole it's just pentatonic.

The two tracks involved are 'In a broken dream' and 'Ain't no sunshine' both of which allow me to play solos in Am pent, but I'll be honest it's starting to bore me a little sticking to pents all the time. What other options are open to me? I know it's not a case of using lots of different notes and more how you use those notes. That's one of the good things that being restricted to a pent scale has taught me.

Any suggestions will be gratefully tried,
Cheers.

viz

Ain't no sunshine has a natural 2nd so either Aeolian or Dorian scales, depending on whether you like the sound of the natural or #6th. Try both.

I personally think the Dorian scale would sound nice there. Just try playing the tune of "what shall we do with a drunken sailor" over it and see how it tastes to you. If you lean heavily on that raised 6th you will get a nice juicy acidic flavour. But that's just *adding* a note to the pentatonic (which has 1,3,4,5,7 and 8).

You could also, in combination with that #6, *alter* one of the notes of the pentatonic, for example the 4th note, - for extra juice try raising it a semitone (augmenting it), then you'd have the 4th mode of the harmonic scale, called the Ukrainian Dorian. Mmmm delicious!

Maybe the next alteration would be to add to that Ukrainian Dorian a sharp 7 instead of a natural 7. That would be the 4th mode of the harmonic major, which is a combination of the Hungarian Gypsy scale and the Lydian scale. Very nice, especially again if you squeeze and emphasize those augmented 4ths and raised 6ths and 7ths.

Then you could also really break the mould; return to the original pentatonic and introduce a flattened 2. That would fit Phrygian or Dorian flat 2 (the 2nd mode of melodic minor).

If you introduce a 6th note and it's natural (ie flattened), it would be Phrygian. If you introduce a sharpened 6th, it would be Dorian flat 2. Both would be cool.

Then, along with that flat 2, you could also raise the 3rd, even though that contradicts that fact that the band's playing in pentatonic minor. Oooo that would give it some flavour! You could do that either with a sharpened 6th (the 6th mode of the harmonic Major scale, the "mixolydian flat 2") or with a natural 6th (the 5th mode of the harmonic Minor scale, the rather nice "Freygish", or "Phrygian dominant", or "Phrygian major" scale).

 

Here are all the above scales in order:

http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab217/Vizzage/scalesfordhaywood_zps35ca7c15.jpg

 

frankus

First things first - rhythm is your best friend. Ain't No Sunshine - try fewer notes and try using the melody as your reference point, exploit the fact that your listeners have brains too.

If you get two verses for your solo, take your time and build up tension. When the lyrics would have said "Ain't no ..... Sunshine" play with space... spaces are like 0s after a number.



then wham! they've been waiting for that note, if it's the wrong note play it again, slide it up a fret or slide it down a fret - more space more impact.

The best solos have build-up, in the best bands the other musicians support that and create it for the other players but you can do it yourself.

If you want to play more and more notes toward the end think about playing the chord progressions think about following it different fingerings of the chords picked out - not all the notes played find odd sequences to play them.. find other chords to fill in between and pick them out...

Practise that that a bit and have a few licks to chuck in at certain points if mixing it isn't working that time.

Pentatonics broken out of musicality retained. HTH,.

viz

Whoops, I forgot about musicality, phrasing, rhythm, tension and release! Yes, what he said.

Jalapeno

Fill in the chromatic notes of the pentatonic, by ear.

Also, try moving the shape up 2 frets (Dom7 pentatonic), or down 3 frets (Maj7 Pentatonic)   (c) Clarky

viz

Yes, so if you're playing in Am, moving it up 2 frets (so it looks like you're playing B pentatonic) gives it a sweet Dorian flavour because it introduces the raised 6th, and sounds very beautiful.

stuglue

You can exploit the pentatonic even more. A 1,4,5 progression in A minor is Amin, Dmin,Emin so you could try playing D minor or E minor pentatonic rather than just Amin.

Don't forget though that voice leading is really important so semi tonal between chords is key to confident chord change playing.

Remember the pentatonic scale is just a minor 7th arpeggio with an added fourth.

dhaywood67

Thanks everyone. Plenty to go at there. Although not sure if I understand it all frankus lol. I should get time to try a few of these tomorrow night before Thursdays rehearsal and I'll let you know how I get on.

Thanks

JayGee

I am SO going to steal some of this stuff if ANS pops up in tonights jam... 

Regarding the phrasing thing, I find that trying to echo what YOUR vocalist is doing on THIS particular occasion (and on something like ANS there's a lot of scope for variation) is a good way to go - if you can lure them into an ad-libbed "call and response" thang then so much the better as that's huge fun for you, for them, and for the audience, the interplay between two people can REALLY build tension, and it can make a few stale old pentatonic licks go further and sound fresher than you'd ever imagine...

close2u

the dorian suggestion is a good one ... some learning vids for you here:

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-028-DorianApproch.php

http://www.justinguitar.com/en/BL-029-DorianLicks.php

 

 

midiglitch

I've just realised that what I meant to post here, I posted in another thread. I had multiple windows open and was watching a video and obviously got confufled.  My comment was:

A couple more themes you could explore:

1. Targeting chord tones.

2. Take the appropriate scale and drop some notes so you restrict yourself to fewer notes, not more! Eg you could go aeolian and drop the 3rd and 7th, leaving you 1,2,4,5,b6. All the notes of the scale will still "fit" but the inherent scale sound will be different.

Idk if this will get you where you want to be, but hopefully you'll enjoy the journey!

Apologies to those who already read that. Anyway....as you were!

viz

I think the true traditional English breakfast should not contain baked beans, however delicious and nutritious they are, because strictly speaking they are not borne from the English farm, which is the source of the English breakfast.

octatonic

Start targeting chord tones and use chromatic ideas.

Think melody- if you can't hum it, don't play it. 

Personally I've had enough dorian wank to last me a life-time.

monquixote

octatonic said:

Personally I've had enough dorian wank to last me a life-time.

Oy! That's my whole soloing repertoire you are dissing there!

I would suggest starting with Octs hated Dorian. It's only two notes different from minor pent and opens up lots of nice ideas. Plus if you do it three notes per string you get lots of nice easy triplet stuff. 

Also when you are going between two pentatonic notes you can always hit any between as long as you aren't stopping on them and it will sound a bit chromatic and jazzy. 

You can also start from a fret above or below any pentatonic note and slide into the pentatonic note and it generally works

If I'm stuck with a track like Ain't no Sunshine. I'd start out by just playing the melody and then work out where I could put some nice bends ("Sunshine" and "gone" seems obvious) 

Then I'd see if I could fit any twiddly bits between the melody and then go into something a bit more elaborate and further from the melody as it progresses. 

octatonic

I don't hate dorian mode when used well, but it often is 100% of a guitarists repertoire and that gets real old, real quick. :-)

monquixote

octatonic said:

I don't hate dorian mode when used well, but it often is 100% of a guitarists repertoire and that gets real old, real quick. :-)

That's me fucked then. 

octatonic

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

I don't hate dorian mode when used well, but it often is 100% of a guitarists repertoire and that gets real old, real quick. :-)

That's me fucked then. 

LOL.

Work on it.

monquixote

octatonic said:

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

I don't hate dorian mode when used well, but it often is 100% of a guitarists repertoire and that gets real old, real quick. :-)

That's me fucked then. 

LOL.

Work on it.

I'm being a bit disingenuous.

I tend to use it as the basis for a lot of the stuff I play, but I also tend to chromatic it up quite a bit and I'm partial to a bit of the old bebop minor now and again. 

I'd like to mix it up a bit more, but because I play in a Funk/R&B band a lot of the stuff I play tends to be over fairly static dominant and minor 7 chords so dorian/mixolydian  is often the easy option. 

Any hints gladly accepted. 

octatonic

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

monquixote said:

octatonic said:

I don't hate dorian mode when used well, but it often is 100% of a guitarists repertoire and that gets real old, real quick. :-)

That's me fucked then. 

LOL.

Work on it.

I'm being a bit disingenuous.

I tend to use it as the basis for a lot of the stuff I play, but I also tend to chromatic it up quite a bit and I'm partial to a bit of the old bebop minor now and again. 

I'd like to mix it up a bit more, but because I play in a Funk/R&B band a lot of the stuff I play tends to be over fairly static dominant and minor 7 chords so dorian/mixolydian  is often the easy option. 

Any hints gladly accepted. 

It all comes down to transcription IMHO.

Find a few players an obsessively transcribe their music.

Definitely 'a few' rather than 'one' and it works better if they are different styles of players.

JAYJO

Play your Am pent on top ie 123 strings, mix with A aeolian, A dorian, A phrygian. Mix it up a bit. Use all 5 shapes.

stuglue

You can get some really out there sounds by using pentatonic scales a tritone apart.

Here's what I mean

Take a dominant chord (chord V, in C its G7). The obvious pentatonic is G. But try mixing it up by playing major pentatonic a tritone interval away from G(in this case Db). It's really effective, and easy to do as every note of the Db pentatonic is a tritone interval away from the notes of G pentatonic so if you want to get outside try playing a b5th above or below ant of the notes of G pentatonic.

G Pentatonic

G,A,B,D,E

Db pentatonic

Db,Eb,F,Ab,Bb

All the Db pentatonic notes are a flat fifth away from the notes of G pentatonic.

The Db pentatonic gives you all the altered dominant notes over G7