Les Paul tone knobs

ICBM

I would replace the knobs with proper bonnet ones while you're at it and cure both problems at the same time .

Speed knobs look great on goldtops but wrong on sunbursts… "it's in the rules" .

underdog

So you are going to keep it?

p90fool

Just take them off and put them back on straight.
Sending it back is like sending a car back to Germany for a wonky wiper blade.

gearaddict

p90fool said:

Just take them off and put them back on straight.
Sending it back is like sending a car back to Germany for a wonky wiper blade.

I did that once.

Is that unreasonable?

Looking at it, the one half of the two sides of the serrated barrel bit (generic pic below) is bent in...may be just that. I assume the correct procedure here is to insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot and twist violently, slip and gouge a deep scar into the maple top...is that right?

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Looking at it, the one half of the two sides of the serrated barrel bit (generic pic below) is bent in...may be just that. I assume the correct procedure here is to insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot and twist violently, slip and gouge a deep scar into the maple top...is that right?

No, the correct procedure is to insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot, lever it outwards very carefully until it's just about right, then decide it needs to go about another half micron, lever it really really carefully some more and snap half the shaft off.

Then concoct some sort of bodge involving a piece of cardboard or a cut-down pick of the right thickness, some superglue and tape, *then* drip superglue on the top and ruin it.

If you're really tempted to do this, it's incredibly hard to 'feel' the point at which the metal is about to give way before it does rather than afterwards… bearing in mind that in order to get the metal to the position you want, you have to overshoot very slightly - and the casting will snap if you go even fractionally beyond its original shape.

Seriously, I would get some new knobs of the right size as FelineGuitars suggested. And get bonnets .

cj73

Is this not so that the knobs sit in line with the top carve when at full?  My epi LP does that wobbly wheel cover thing when you turn them but are pretty flush to the body shape at maximum

EDIT. Just tried and it's only the neck tone that wobbles…best just to ignore me

not_the_dj

Buy a PRS if you want everything lined up right....the mojo is in the wonky bits ;-)

gearaddict

ICBM;494900" said:

gearaddict said:Looking at it, the one half of the two no longer sides of the serrated barrel bit (generic pic below) is bent in...may be just that. I assume the correct procedure here is to insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot and twist violently, slip and gouge a deep scar into the maple top...is that right?





No, the correct procedure is to insert a flat bladed screwdriver into the slot, lever it outwards very carefully until it's just about right, then decide it needs to go about another half micron, lever it really really carefully some more and snap half the shaft off.

Then concoct some sort of bodge involving a piece of cardboard or a cut-down pick of the right thickness, some superglue and tape, *then* drip superglue on the top and ruin it.



If you're really tempted to do this, it's incredibly hard to 'feel' the point at which the metal is about to give way before it does rather than afterwards… bearing in mind that in order to get the metal to the position you want, you have to overshoot very slightly - and the casting will snap if you go even fractionally beyond its original shape.

Seriously, I would get some new knobs of the right size as FelineGuitars suggested. And get bonnets .

Tbh, having had them off I think the top of the shaft is a standard size after all. I tried swapping the two tone knobs over and they behaved as if they hadn't been swapped... So I guess it is to do with the shaft rather than the knob.

Incidentally, how do people go about adjusting the action on these tune-o-matic bridges? Loosen all the strings of first? The wheel doesn't seem to be loose enough to turn by hand with the guitar in standard tuning... Or is there a lock screw? I can see a hex bolt on the stop tail side of the bridge...

Ta.

gearaddict

underdog;494812" said:

So you are going to keep it?

Still not entirely sure tbh. It is awesome in a number of ways but feels kind of alien to me... and I'm not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Maynehead

Incidentally, how do people go about adjusting the action on these tune-o-matic bridges? Loosen all the strings of first? The wheel doesn't seem to be loose enough to turn by hand with the guitar in standard tuning... Or is there a lock screw? I can see a hex bolt on the stop tail side of the bridge... 

Yeah, sounds like its a locking tom bridge. Loosen the hex bolts first, then turn by hand or with the help of a screwdriver. Don't really need to loosen strings especially if you're going down, but you can if you want to be extra careful.

ICBM

It's a locking bridge, you can see it in the pic in the other thread. Even when loosened I would still be inclined to slacken the strings.

Although, having looked at the pics again I have to say both the bridge and the tailpiece look very high - a lot of Gibsons are like this, it's caused by an overly steep neck angle - and in my opinion they never really play right and possibly even sound right.

Can you take more of a side-on pic?

underdog

Don't use a screw driver use a coin, doesn't chew the slots up

@ICBM I slammed the bridge down to the body on one of my les Paul's and never really got use to how the strings felt after it, I tried it for a few weeks but in the end I raised it back up a bit as the string tension felt better, and noticed no difference in sound.

ICBM

Not so much the tailpiece, more the bridge. There's nothing you can do about that with a given neck angle. It's true that if the bridge is too high you can't get the tailpiece fully down without the strings hitting the bridge - or top-wrapping it, which I hate - but that's a secondary issue. It's the height of the bridge which is the real problem.

gearaddict

I'll take a photo this evening. it's one of the things I struggle with a bit on LPs...the height of the strings off the body where my strumming hand rests. Just the design though, isn't it?

As an aside, I've been pretty disappointed with Thomann during this purchase. I've sent them a few emails about things and not received a single proper reply. Musicstore.de via DV247 were a million times better in terms of comms.

RaymondLin

ICBM said:

It's a locking bridge, you can see it in the pic in the other thread. Even when loosened I would still be inclined to slacken the strings.

Although, having looked at the pics again I have to say both the bridge and the tailpiece look very high - a lot of Gibsons are like this, it's caused by an overly steep neck angle - and in my opinion they never really play right and possibly even sound right.

Can you take more of a side-on pic?

It also looks to me that one side is much higher than the other.  What is the cause of that?

Compare to.

or

underdog

Gone back to other thread to look at photos, just looks like the guitar needs putting how you want it in terms of bridge and tail piece.

Usually quickest way is to slam both right down and then adjust them up until your happy Its playing right

Maynehead

ICBM said:

It's a locking bridge, you can see it in the pic in the other thread. Even when loosened I would still be inclined to slacken the strings.

Although, having looked at the pics again I have to say both the bridge and the tailpiece look very high - a lot of Gibsons are like this, it's caused by an overly steep neck angle - and in my opinion they never really play right and possibly even sound right.

Can you take more of a side-on pic?

Hmm, I must say, the bridge doesn't look high to me at all, it looks perfect. The tailpiece does look high though, and can be screwed down as long as the strings doesn't touch the back of the bridge.

The perfect neck angle will be one where if you lower the bridge to its minimum height, the strings just about rests on top of the frets (0 action). Your bridge from those smallish pics look like its at the right height for that, but you can perform this experiment to confirm.

The reason it looks higher on the low E side may be simply because the low E action is higher than the high E, which is a normal way to set up a Les Paul. I like to have 4/64ths low E and 3/64ths high E at the 12th fret.

DaveMon

On the 2014 standards they have the tone pros locking bridge and tail piece.

So make sure you undo the locking grub screws before adjusting them!

Couple of pics of the bridge and tailpiece on my 2014 LP;

ICBM

Maynehead said:

Hmm, I must say, the bridge doesn't look high to me at all, it looks perfect. The tailpiece does look high though, and can be screwed down as long as the strings doesn't touch the back of the bridge.

The perfect neck angle will be one where if you lower the bridge to its minimum height, the strings just about rests on top of the frets (0 action). Your bridge from those smallish pics look like its at the right height for that, but you can perform this experiment to confirm.

The reason it looks higher on the low E side may be simply because the low E action is higher than the high E, which is a normal way to set up a Les Paul. I like to have 4/64ths low E and 3/64ths high E at the 12th fret.

It looks way too high to me - like there's about 1/4" between the bottom of the height wheels and the body. Yes, I know a lot of modern Les Pauls are like that, that's why I don't like them!

The ideal is about 1/8", which is exactly the result you describe if the strings are just touching the fingerboard with the height wheels on the body, since you want the action at the 12th fret around 1/16" and the bridge height is double the action height. It's rare to find a modern LP that sets up correctly with the bridge that low though.

But if you do find one, you can then usually get the tailpiece tight down without the strings resting on the back of the bridge.

I've come across a few where the bridge needs to be about 3/8" up! Daft. And largely because Gibson won't address the problem of variable neck angles caused by the hand-fitting process.

underdog

ICBM;495957" said:

Maynehead said:



Hmm, I must say, the bridge doesn't look high to me at all, it looks perfect. The tailpiece does look high though, and can be screwed down as long as the strings doesn't touch the back of the bridge.

The perfect neck angle will be one where if you lower the bridge to its minimum height, the strings just about rests on top of the frets (0 action). Your bridge from those smallish pics look like its at the right height for that, but you can perform this experiment to confirm.

The reason it looks higher on the low E side may be simply because the low E action is higher than the high E, which is a normal way to set up a Les Paul. I like to have 4/64ths low E and 3/64ths high E at the 12th fret.





It looks way too high to me - like there's about 1/4" between the bottom of the height wheels and the body. Yes, I know a lot of modern Les Pauls are like that, that's why I don't like them!

The ideal is about 1/8", which is exactly the result you describe if the strings are just touching the fingerboard with the height wheels on the body, since you want the action at the 12th fret around 1/16" and the bridge height is double the action height. It's rare to find a modern LP that sets up correctly with the bridge that low though.

But if you do find one, you can then usually get the tailpiece tight down without the strings resting on the back of the bridge.

I've come across a few where the bridge needs to be about 3/8" up! Daft. And largely because Gibson won't address the problem of variable neck angles caused by the hand-fitting process.

I could never play with the action that low, on any guitar, I like mine on the high side of medium

As mentioned earlier it makes the strings feel very different (in what way I can't quantify) and I just couldn't cope, which is a shame as the tail piece could literally be screwed right to the deck.