Les Paul tone knobs

underdog

Adam_MD;497240" said:

It amazes me some people would accept a setup like that on a gibson because they have mojo and soul but if a Prs sc58 was posted with that kind of setup you wouldn't hear the end of it.

Really? Maybe I'm in the wrong but I accept every guitar is going to need adjusting, I'd accept shimming a neck or 're cutting the nut on a cheaper guitar but not on something cost over a grand. It's not about mono, it's about being angry you have to turn a thumb wheel. It's like returning a car because the seat was pushed all the way back and you were only 5 foot.

People buy jazzmasters and order a complete new trem unit at the same time so it works for God sake

gearaddict

p90fool said:

mutter about having to spend ten seconds lowering a bridge 

Bit harsh dude. The reason I was hesitant to start messing with the setup was precisely because the guitar is so high value to me. I could just see me slipping with a screwdriver and destroying the top or something - especially when the vendor is still in the frame for any issues. It's not that I am a jaded collector who can't be bothered setting up a guitar. And the comments I was seeing seemed to say it looked more severe than could be sorted by setup.

gearaddict

p90fool said:

In short, he bought it, he doesn't really like it, and wants everyone to join in with a chorus of Louis IV-style contemptuous powdered wig shaking.

I'm sorry, I just can't.

I can still hear you, you know

I kind of have a reaction to being judged like this - it's not a fair judgement. But I understand your frustration.

RaymondLin

underdog said:

RaymondLin;497207" said:

 

I don't agree at all. When buying blind you always run the risk on how it looks compared to photos, how it feels or sounds, but this isn't a Gibson issue, that's a blind buying issue.

Almost every guitar I've ever bought has been a terrible set up, that includes fenders with saddles set at random hights or with terribly cut nuts etc. I just don't see the difference screwing down a bridge makes, it's a 2 minute job, the bridge was attached, it was straight and undamaged, the QC guy probably covered his duties there.

What the OP had to do was an adjustment, not a fix, I don't see it as a fault. I've bought 2 Les Paul's blind and both are fantastic, and a Gibson 335 the same, and an LPJ.

 

I respectfulyl disagree.

Fine tuning to suit your taste, yes.  Completely out of wack, no.

You can see in the photo how off it was, if we can see that from pictures, how come the QC guy didn't? 

Was he on a break at the time?
Did he just don't care?
Or more worryingly.  He thinks that is totally acceptable to send out a guitar set up like that, just because it is on.

We, as customers should NOT accept crap like this.  Remember how much these guitars are, if people keep accepting them out of the factory like that then they won't get better with their QC. Gibson needs to take a hint, and this is how you do it.

The attitude that "yeah, I can fix that myself" means it is one aspect of QC they can get away with, and a slippery slope.  Before you know it, we would be expected to solder in our own pick ups and pots, i mean its only a few minute's job right?

I mean how difficult is it to set the neck in the right angle, all you need to do is check it with a tool.  No one has been able to answer that.  How could a guitar with a wrong neck angle get made?  seriously, how?

underdog

RaymondLin;497262" said:

underdog said:

RaymondLin;497207" said: 

I don't agree at all. When buying blind you always run the risk on how it looks compared to photos, how it feels or sounds, but this isn't a Gibson issue, that's a blind buying issue.



Almost every guitar I've ever bought has been a terrible set up, that includes fenders with saddles set at random hights or with terribly cut nuts etc. I just don't see the difference screwing down a bridge makes, it's a 2 minute job, the bridge was attached, it was straight and undamaged, the QC guy probably covered his duties there.



What the OP had to do was an adjustment, not a fix, I don't see it as a fault. I've bought 2 Les Paul's blind and both are fantastic, and a Gibson 335 the same, and an LPJ.
















 I respectfulyl disagree.Fine tuning to suit your taste, yes.  Completely out of wack, no.You can see in the photo how off it was, if we can see that from pictures, how come the QC guy didn't?  Was he on a break at the time?

Did he just don't care?

Or more worryingly.  He thinks that is totally acceptable to send out a guitar set up like that, just because it is on.We, as customers should NOT accept crap like this.  Remember how much these guitars are, if people keep accepting them out of the factory like that then they won't get better with their QC. Gibson needs to take a hint, and this is how you do it.The attitude that "yeah, I can fix that myself" means it is one aspect of QC they can get away with, and a slippery slope.  Before you know it, we would be expected to solder in our own pick ups and pots, i mean its only a few minute's job right?I mean how difficult is it to set the neck in the right angle, all you need to do is check it with a tool.  No one has been able to answer that.  How could a guitar with a wrong neck angle get made?  seriously, how?

The difference is you see it as fixing, I see it as adjusting. I was going to be turning them thumb screws anyway, having to do an extra turn or two doesn't make a difference.

RaymondLin

I understand a £200 guitar comes like that but a £2,000 instrument, i expect they pay a guy to set up a guitar PROPERLY and a guy to make sure the last guy did it right.  It is why I pay all that money in the first place.

There ought to be a factory standard, there is no way that is a standard factory setting.  So the conclusion is that they don't set up the guitar at all, because no way that is acceptable as a well set up guitar.

Wheter one sees the above is "adjusting" or "fixing" is irrelevant, part of the money spent on an instrument of this value is the whole package that it comes as perfect as possible out of the box.  The expectation is set higher than that of a £200 instrument, and so it should be. 

 

underdog

RaymondLin;497299" said:

I understand a £200 guitar comes like that but a £2,000 instrument, i expect they pay a guy to set up a guitar PROPERLY and a guy to make sure the last guy did it right.  It is why I pay all that money in the first place.There ought to be a factory standard, there is no way that is a standard factory setting.  So the conclusion is that they don't set up the guitar at all, because no way that is acceptable as a well set up guitar.Wheter one sees the above is "adjusting" or "fixing" is irrelevant, part of the money spent on an instrument of this value is the whole package that it comes as perfect as possible out of the box.  The expectation is set higher than that of a £200 instrument, and so it should be.   

I disagree massively on that, most luthiers bread and butter is setting up new guitars for customers, unless your lucky and the factory set up matches your needs then you or someone you pay is setting the guitar up for your needs.

No guitar comes ready to play as well as it could, because it a different for each person, it can't happen.

Comparing having to screw a thumb wheel to us soldering our own pickups is like saying because your new car needed 5 extra psi in one wheel they will be askin you to connect up the headlights next.

Shall we agree to disagree and let the thread continue on the path it was intended.

p90fool

gearaddict;497259" said:

p90fool saiid:In short, he bought it, he doesn't really like it, and wants everyone to join in with a chorus of Louis IV-style contemptuous powdered wig shaking.



I'm sorry, I just can't.














I can still hear you, you know

I kind of have a reaction to being judged like this - it's not a fair judgement. But I understand your frustration.

I know, I'm exaggerating for effect and I apologise, I know you're not that kind of guy.

I guess my travels over the years mean I just can't help seeing it from an outside perspective, and how all this would seem to some of the musicians I've met along the way.
Not of that alters the relationship between price paid and QC however, and it's only fair that we question everything until we feel we have value for money.

RaymondLin

I compelete understand one can't set a guitar to everyone's taste.  (the point of luthier's bread and butter income is setting up guitars irrelevant...so Gibson is creating jobs by sending out guitars badly set up on purpose? Pleaseee! )

My point isn't that there is NO WAY IN HELL that guitar in the photo is a standard set up out of the factory, for any factory.  If you had to take a wild guess how a guitar would set up, you put it somewhere in the middle of the park, that is clearly way off.

I am sorry, there is no way I am prepare to lower my standard and say that's fine.

 As for the OP, I think that chapter is closed, the e-tune doesn't work so it ought to go back. 

underdog

RaymondLin;497325" said:

I compelete understand one can't set a guitar to everyone's taste.  (the point of luthier's bread and butter income is setting up guitars irrelevant...so Gibson is creating jobs by sending out guitars badly set up on purpose? Pleaseee! )My point isn't that there is NO WAY IN HELL that guitar in the photo is a standard set up out of the factory, for any factory.  If you had to take a wild guess how a guitar would set up, you put it somewhere in the middle of the park, that is clearly way off.I am sorry, there is no way I am prepare to lower my standard and say that's fine. 

but what difference does one extra turn on something you were going to be turning anyway make? Nothing was broken, damaged or fitted wrong, the finish on the guitar looks good, the woods look lovely etc etc

Anyway, as long as we're all happy with what we have, it's fine. I like good guitars that feel and sound right, don't expect them to be set for my needs, it's why I like what I like I guess. Others like perceived perfection it's why they like what they like.

Maynehead

At the end of the day, this thread is about gearaddict's guitar, and whether he should keep it or return it. Yes, the QC may have been lax in the setup department, but it's not a reason to return the guitar, if the product is structurally and functionally sound. Arguing about whether the QC guy at Gibson deserves his annual bonus is not going to help gearaddict decide what to do with his hugely precious guitar.

I know how it feels to have lived and dreamt about a guitar just for it to finally arrive and find out there's a problem. It's quite soul destroying and not something we should take lightly.

I did make one brash comment earlier when I saw how low the treble side of the bridge was, but then realised almost immediately that as I couldn't see the string action I couldn't make an informed judgement, and I apologised for it. Turns out that the guitar was absolutely fine, and the neck angle was correct.

Unfortunately the possible broken tuner then put a spanner in the works... This is a real issue and definitely warrants a return if the fix is not trivial.

GuitarMonkey

underdog said:

Anyway, as long as we're all happy with what we have, it's fine.

Have you learned NOTHING about guitarists and GAS? 

underdog

GuitarMonkey;497375" said:

underdog said:Anyway, as long as we're all happy with what we have, it's fine.










Have you learned NOTHING about guitarists and GAS? 

ok as long as we're all happy with what we have in that while its not perfect it's one step closer and we will continue with another purchase of another guitar that will get us closer again and will repeat this for the tiny increment we believe it gives to justify said purchases

gearaddict

ANYway...I think I'm going to get Thomann to send me some new tuners...probably the quickest fix rather than sending it back. I was pleased that the setup seemed to end up well and I was looking forward to giving it a blast but couldn't get it tuned! Ultimate frustration.

ICBM

gearaddict said:

ANYway...I think I'm going to get Thomann to send me some new tuners...

http://elderly.com/images/accessories/GAPT/GTM1N.jpg

gearaddict

ICBM said:

gearaddict said:

ANYway...I think I'm going to get Thomann to send me some new tuners...

http://elderly.com/images/accessories/GAPT/GTM1N.jpg

Any suggestions as to what type of tuners I should fit?

gearaddict

Seriously though...I think I'd have to drill holes and shit.

I'm thinking if I can swap the one tuner for a new min-etune one now...there were at least 2 others that felt a bit dodgy, so having 5 spares would be good.

Quality-wise the min-etune tuners don't feel very solid. Although people seem to find them reliable.

underdog

gearaddict;497583" said:

Seriously though...I think I'd have to drill holes and shit.

I'm thinking if I can swap the one tuner for a new min-etune one now...there were at least 2 others that felt a bit dodgy, so having 5 spares would be good.

Quality-wise the min-etune tuners don't feel very solid. Although people seem to find them reliable.

Yeah I'd want the gforce tuners myself, even if you don't want to keep them they fetch good money on ebay

ICBM

gearaddict said:

Any suggestions as to what type of tuners I should fit?

Sorry, I couldn't find a bigger pic than that .

Luddite jokes aside, I'm pretty sure if it's a warranty part replacement you will need to fit like for like. If you do later want to replace them, try to find tuners which match the footprint and screw holes if possible (I don't know if it is).

gearaddict

I'm not sure there are any pre-drilled screw holes...I don't think you need them for the min-etune. The back plate is just held on by the robocops heads.