Jazz Stuff (the thread formerly known as "Just ordered some jazz guitar books...")

Jalapeno

GuyBoden said:

Jalapeno said:

I transcribed first 64 bars of Miles Davis' So What solo from Kind of Blue for the last face-to-face teacher I had (think he got bored of it before I did)

Still got the Sibelius sheets somewhere

I don't want to sound negative, but the process of copying the solos yourself from recordings is the key to success, you won't get it from reading a transcription sheet by someone else. IMHO, this is why transcription books fail.

It's not negative, and it took feckin' hours as I was the mug typing it into Sibelius !

Branshen

Yay! Good ol' @viz is here. Bring on the high gain jazz shred!

Megii

Branshen said:

Yay! Good ol' @viz is here. Bring on the high gain jazz shred!

High gain jazz shred?...  :-S

viz

Takes all sorts.

Megii

viz said:

Takes all sorts.

Absolutely, twas only me being daft.

hobbio

I mentioned to my tutor that I want to improve my chording and ability to follow charts, so last night we were working on this gypsy style piece:



Almost every shape is new to me, and the tempo I'm working up to is pretty damn quick. I've played it very slow too, and it sounds lovely. I can't do some of the barres so I've modified a couple of the shapes but I'm trying to stick as closely as possible to these voicings. Mucho practice required!

Jalapeno

Gypsy chords are my thing - those G7s are mental, but the Diminished, 9ths and 13ths are spot on.  Only takes a few weeks for them to be second nature, and you can really get the tempo chugging along.


I'd use simpler Dom7 shapes like these

Megii

hobbio said:

I mentioned to my tutor that I want to improve my chording and ability to follow charts, so last night we were working on this gypsy style piece:



Almost every shape is new to me, and the tempo I'm working up to is pretty damn quick. I've played it very slow too, and it sounds lovely. I can't do some of the barres so I've modified a couple of the shapes but I'm trying to stick as closely as possible to these voicings. Mucho practice required!

There are some shapes there that I've never used myself. That starting Bb6 for example - I'd probably go 6x878x instead, although in the context of Gypsy Jazz type strumming, I have to say the extra note on the A string does add a certain something. There is a technique where you can fret 2 notes on adjacent strings/same fret with the tip, or near the tip, of the finger - so not like a normal barre, and you can get that chord that way using the 3rd finger on the A and D strings. Can be a bit tricky though, and takes some practice. Another approach is to fret the low E string note with the thumb over the top, then you can go with fingers 2,3,1,4 for the remaining notes. The G7 on the last line is similar for me - again I would not normally play the note on the A string myself.

Another interesting one is the A7 on line 3 - again I'd normally miss the A string note, and play a 3 note chord - I tend to think 4 note chords on the bottom 4 strings can sound a bit grungy (not in a Kurt Cobain way ) but in the context I guess that might have a certain effect which is good. I don't normally use that 9th shape in the last bar either - again I'd miss out either the E string or A string note. But interesting stuff - looks to be a good book @Hobbio.

hobbio

I'm trying to learn the shapes as written, but I'll have a go with yours too. One can never have too many voicings under the fingers!

The bits I'm struggling with are the barres on the Bb6 and G7, my fingers just don't want to bend that way lol. On the Bb6 I've just muted the 4th string as it's the octave and the G7 I'm playing as a full G7 barre with my pinkie on the 5th string F. Hopefully I'll get enough flexibility with practice to be able to play them as written.

Strangely, I have no problem with the C9 shape and I can gliss it up fine.

EDIT: @Megii You posted as I was replying to @Jalapeno lol.

I'll try that fingertip fretting technique as it might well suit my hand better, but the thumb over is not something my hands are physically capable of consistently as they're a bit small. The easiest Bb6 I know is X13333 but it's a big jump to the Bbm6 and it sounds a bit jarring.

Megii

Jalapeno said:

Gypsy chords are my thing - those G7s are mental, but the Diminished, 9ths and 13ths are spot on.  Only takes a few weeks for them to be second nature, and you can really get the tempo chugging along.


I'd use simpler Dom7 shapes like these

I think a similar point to me @Jalapeno, although you obviously have more experience of Gypsy Jazz type playing than I do. I do play in a trad jazz band sometimes, and find there is a bit of overlap there though, so this is a useful area of discussion for me.

hobbio

Oh I forgot, the book belongs to my tutor but I might have to find out what it is so I can buy it myself.

Jalapeno

hobbio said:

Strangely, I have no problem with the C9 shape and I can gliss it up fine.

I'd usually play a C9 instead of that C7 (root 5th) in the simplified fingering picture above

The Root on the 6th G7 chord moved over 1 string is a nice easy Cm7 chord, as well. 

I'm finding I like full 5/6 string chords less and less - the more guitars playing, the muddier the sound gets - in ANY style. In my rock/covers band the other guitarist loves full barre chords - and I've found I just have to use other voicings/inversions or together we make an awful din with the mid-range completely muddied up.

Megii

hobbio said:

I'm trying to learn the shapes as written, but I'll have a go with yours too. One can never have too many voicings under the fingers!

The bits I'm struggling with are the barres on the Bb6 and G7, my fingers just don't want to bend that way lol. On the Bb6 I've just muted the 4th string as it's the octave and the G7 I'm playing as a full G7 barre with my pinkie on the 5th string F. Hopefully I'll get enough flexibility with practice to be able to play them as written.

Strangely, I have no problem with the C9 shape and I can gliss it up fine.

EDIT: @Megii You posted as I was replying to @Jalapeno lol.

I'll try that fingertip fretting technique as it might well suit my hand better, but the thumb over is not something my hands are physically capable of consistently as they're a bit small. The easiest Bb6 I know is X13333 but it's a big jump to the Bbm6 and it sounds a bit jarring.

I'd be lying if I said the fingertip 2 string technique is easy - I find it works for me on certain chord shapes. Ted Greene was an advocate of it, but he used to play all sorts of mad voicings with ease. For that Bb6, if I'm honest, I find the thumb over works well enough for me (I've been doing that for donkey's years) and the fingertip technique is a bit tricky - very easy to not fret one of the notes cleanly. You do have to be able to grab a chord shape fairly quickly of course - I believe Joe Pass said all his chord shapes had to be quick and easy to grab. I don't have large hands either btw - it is amazing how things that seem impossible at first start to happen after a couple of weeks or so's practice. I can do that 9th voicing as well - it is cool actually, does have a certain "Gypsy" sound about it - so I've learnt something here today, as they say!

Megii

hobbio said:

Oh I forgot, the book belongs to my tutor but I might have to find out what it is so I can buy it myself.

Do please let us know @hobbio.

Jalapeno

Megii said:

I believe Joe Pass said all his chord shapes had to be quick and easy to grab

And he was a wise man. 

Mental chord stretches was my only real issue with the Mickey Baker book.

Megii

Jalapeno said:

hobbio said:

Strangely, I have no problem with the C9 shape and I can gliss it up fine.

I'd usually play a C9 instead of that C7 (root 5th) in the simplified fingering picture above

The Root on the 6th G7 chord moved over 1 string is a nice easy Cm7 chord, as well. 

I'm finding I like full 5/6 string chords less and less - the more guitars playing, the muddier the sound gets - in ANY style. In my rock/covers band the other guitarist loves full barre chords - and I've found I just have to use other voicings/inversions or together we make an awful din with the mid-range completely muddied up.

Me too re the 5/6 string chords - there are places where they have an effect - as an ending for example, or in a slow ballad maybe. But mostly I'm 4 or 3 note chords - even 2 notes sometimes. In a band, quite often I'm not playing the root note, and leaving it to the bass player (when he remembers to actually play the root...  :x ).

hobbio

Joe Pass is my absolute jazz guitar hero. What was it that was once said about him in a New York Times review? Ahh yes, it was "he looks like everybody's uncle but plays like nobody's business".

I think that sums it up!

Megii

Jalapeno said:

Megii said:

I believe Joe Pass said all his chord shapes had to be quick and easy to grab

And he was a wise man. 

Mental chord stretches was my only real issue with the Mickey Baker book.

My Dad gave me a copy of the Mickey Baker book when I was first learning, and I got a some of the basic shapes from it. But yes, I do agree with you @Jalapeno, and I'm not actually a huge fan of that book these days. It still seems very popular though, for some reason.

viz

Megii said:

viz said:

Takes all sorts.

Absolutely, twas only me being daft.

Oh soz, didn't mean it to sound stand offish, anyway, here's a bit of jazz metal by Shaun Baxter:

Megii

viz said:

Megii said:

viz said:

Takes all sorts.

Absolutely, twas only me being daft.

Oh soz, didn't mean it to sound stand offish, anyway, here's a bit of jazz metal by Shaun Baxter:

You certainly didn't - I was just making sure my comment wasn't taken the wrong way either. Nice bit of Shaun Baxter there - wish he'd released a few more albums in that vein.