"Brand New"

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  • hgtrshgtrs Frets: 3
    edited February 2015
    ^

    The VAT is a perfectly good point. To be honest, if we could sell everything in our shop as used, we'd be better off!

    Because, we could claim the VAT back on the purchase and then sell the goods using the VAT margin scheme thus making the sale more profitable... and a highly illegal act of tax fraud!

    New means, not previously sold to a consumer.

    Simple.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    VAT is down to taxation rules set by the Government and enforced by HMRC, which is entirely different. And of course there are plenty of disputes on VAT eg the jaffa cake debacle.
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3299
    I need a face palm button for this thread
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2324
    edited February 2015
    Voxman said:
    VAT is down to taxation rules set by the Government and enforced by HMRC, which is entirely different. And of course there are plenty of disputes on VAT eg the jaffa cake debacle.
    Would you be open to buying a "new" jaffacake?

    I've only had it a few weeks but it's still new, honest. It's been opened but it still looks new, what's the problem?

    (The jaffa cake VAT debate is nothing to do with new versus used, it's to do with the often counter-intuitive and arguably downright bonkers decisions as to what qualifies as a "luxury item" (and hence qualifies for VAT) and which doesn't. Currently chocolate biscuits qualify for VAT but cake doesn't. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaffa_Cakes#Categorisation_as_cake_or_biscuit_for_VAT )
    hgtrs said:
    New means, not previously sold to a consumer.

    Simple.
    +1

    Nice to see a shop saying that. :)
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  • martmart Frets: 5205
    grungebob said:
    I need a face palm button for this thread
    Absolutely! Surely everybody knows that VAT is only 16% of the new price, not 20%.

    :)
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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2324
    ^ well played :))
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  • grungebobgrungebob Frets: 3299
    I gave you a lol for that.


    I'd like to wade into the Jaffa debate if I could please, Jaffa cakes are cakes by definition as if you leave them out they go stale and hard ergo a cake, biscuits on the other hand when left out go soft and stale, simples. Next.
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  • nickb_boynickb_boy Frets: 1689
    edited February 2015
    I was considering buying a new Fender custom shop style case and came across the one below listed as "Brand New with keys" "in unused condition" on ebay

    image

    I never realised fender are now making the interiors look reliced with guitar impressions already in place when you buy them "brand new"??
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  • SamgbSamgb Frets: 774
    New/Used is tricky for sure. Especially when someone comes up with that old chestnut 'I'd expect to get back what I paid for it...'
    Erm... No. Flipping. Way.
    See also 'I reckon it owes me £x'
    Also bull-sheeit.
    If you take 'vintage' out of the equation people need to go and try and sell their £15k car a year or two down the line and see how close to 'what I paid for it' they get. And then adjust their expectations accordingly. People are generally realistic price wise on here(and if they're not, you can see them a mile off - no responses). Price Fantasists appear to be standard on Ebay however.
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  • Skipped said:
    When a private seller asks you for almost the new price for a nearly new guitar, then of course what you should say is:

    "But 20% of the new price was VAT" 

    Er....So f*cking what?

    "Well......you can't expect me to pay the VAT. You are not even VAT registered......"


    :))
    Almost..

    Tax does not make up 20% of the selling price, it makes up 20% of the price before tax is added.

    e.g. price is £100 before tax, add 20% = £120
    if you deduct 20% off of £120, you get £96, because 20% of 120 is more than 20% of 100.







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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    On the LP Custom thread I suggested buying a secondhand LPC for 1500-2000 was a better deal than buying a new one from Thomann for 2100. The response was lets say, negative. Some people really believe that new Gibsons don't depreciate but actually go up in value.
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  • Have been humming this the whole time I was reading this.
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    Cool song :)
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  • jd0272jd0272 Frets: 3867
    grungebob said:
    I gave you a lol for that.


    I'd like to wade into the Jaffa debate if I could please, Jaffa cakes are cakes by definition as if you leave them out they go stale and hard ergo a cake, biscuits on the other hand when left out go soft and stale, simples. Next.
    I bow before you, and award a Fret.
    "You do all the 'widdly widdly' bits, and just leave the hard stuff to me."
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  • jd0272jd0272 Frets: 3867
    nickb_boy said:
    I was considering buying a new Fender custom shop style case and came across the one below listed as "Brand New with keys" "in unused condition" on ebay

    http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTAwMFgxNTA0/z/JfgAAOSwBahU1zzH/$_3.JPG

    I never realised fender are now making the interiors look reliced with guitar impressions already in place when you buy them "brand new"??
    That's called Attention To The Details.  ;)
    "You do all the 'widdly widdly' bits, and just leave the hard stuff to me."
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  • AlnicoAlnico Frets: 4616
    @GavHaus

    That's an amazing song.

    Thank you for introducing me to that.
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  • @Alnico - fun to play with a loop pedal too!
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  • LewLew Frets: 1657
    The ones that get me are 

    "Brand new and unopened still incase with protective plastic, opened case to take photos and that's it. This guitar sounds and plays amazing!"

    Happens pretty often on eBay.


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  • GassageGassage Frets: 30826
    edited February 2015
    Lew said:
    The ones that get me are 

    "Brand new and unopened still incase with protective plastic, opened case to take photos and that's it. This guitar sounds and plays amazing!"

    Happens pretty often on eBay.


    I'm a great believer in clear English and succinct writing.

    I can paraphrase that into one word:

    Used.

    *An Official Foo-Approved guitarist since Sept 2023.

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  • Dave_McDave_Mc Frets: 2324
    edited February 2015
    grungebob said:
    I gave you a lol for that.


    I'd like to wade into the Jaffa debate if I could please, Jaffa cakes are cakes by definition as if you leave them out they go stale and hard ergo a cake, biscuits on the other hand when left out go soft and stale, simples. Next.
    Yeah I'd be inclined to agree with that (though they are suspiciously biscuit-shaped and tend to be eaten instead of biscuits, but neither of those necessarily mean much I suppose :)) ).

    Bigger problem is entire VAT thing. I don't exactly feel like a multimillionaire when eating a chocolate biscuit, or a pleb when eating cake. (Did Marie Antoinette come up with our VAT rules? >:D<)

    Especially when you consider things like caravans (at one point, it may have changed, can't remember) were zero-rated I think. Is someone buying a chocolate biscuit living it up more than someone buying a caravan?!?! :))

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Value_Added_Tax_(United_Kingdom)#Rates Whole list there
    Samgb said:
    New/Used is tricky for sure. Especially when someone comes up with that old chestnut 'I'd expect to get back what I paid for it...'
    Erm... No. Flipping. Way.
    See also 'I reckon it owes me £x'
    Also bull-sheeit.
    If you take 'vintage' out of the equation people need to go and try and sell their £15k car a year or two down the line and see how close to 'what I paid for it' they get. And then adjust their expectations accordingly. People are generally realistic price wise on here(and if they're not, you can see them a mile off - no responses). Price Fantasists appear to be standard on Ebay however.
    Agreed. I mean, compared to most things, guitars actually hold onto their value pretty well. Once the initial depreciation from new happens, assuming it's kept in good condition (and assuming it doesn't suddenly become uncool), that's about it. Compare that to cars, as you said, or computers or other electronic stuff etc.
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