Non Singers! Do you sound ok with vocal fx pedals?

close2u

So our band really could do with backing vocals.
I am the most able to sing & play of the 3 on instruments. But I am tuneless so no mic comes close to me.
Would an auto correct device such as Tc helicon c1 or digit each vocalist live 3 actually allow me to do backing vox?
Or do you need to be at least close to the true notes?
Could I use one to train myself and improve my pitching?

ICBM

Works for Kanye West.

thecolourbox

I don't really know the answer to your question, but I had a TC Mic Mechanic and when I was using it, it sounded to me like it was just a naff doubling effect almost like a chorus effect, and i didn't seem to sound any better
HOWEVER
i have since found out that this is not the pedals fault, and they do indeed sound good. Its apparently a phenomenon of the human ear because i could hear both the effected sound coming out of speakers, and from your mouth and vibrations in your skull. Which i guess would mean it wouldn't help you with training as such

I don't know if it would help with backing vocals quality though

Danny1969

You need to be close to the notes and then it can kinda work but not great

The digitech vocalist pro has a listen input that you can feed from your guitar and from that it works out what key the songs Then it puts an appropriate harmony on your lead vocalist

That's the best unit we have one

EricTheWeary

We have the same problem as the OP. I highly suspect our keyboard player can sing a bit as she has a good ear and is a music teacher BUT is reluctant to sing in public. I find my attempts at singing harmony are so awful it's just better to do shouty BV's and not attempt to be in tune. It's a limited approach but it can add a bit if texture to shouty choruses.
Even if your harmony BV's are spot on then you are reliant on the lead vocalist also being spot on and many singers like to, err, interpret melody lines.
So, BV's - shed load of reverb and not too high in the mix FTW. \m/

Danny1969

The thing that stands out for me in terms of vocals when watching other covers bands are they rarely sit right in the mix. On a record we use compression and automation to get the vocal to sit right, the average pub band tends to have no compression and no one mixing so some songs the vocals too loud in places, other songs (sung in a lower register ) will feature vocals that are too quiet. 

Not a fan of reverb on live vocals unless your a Walkers Bros tribute  , tapped tempo delays work better

The only way you get better at backing vocals is to keep doing em but you need to make sure they are buried in the mix until they are good enough to feature. Again that comes down to someone mixing you 

Top tip for better BV's is use some kind of IEM ....... My BV's were truly awful until I moved onto them and now I'm pretty confident and sing lead vox on a few songs

PolarityMan

Danny1969 said:

The thing that stands out for me in terms of vocals when watching other covers bands are they rarely sit right in the mix. On a record we use compression and automation to get the vocal to sit right, the average pub band tends to have no compression and no one mixing so some songs the vocals too loud in places, other songs (sung in a lower register ) will feature vocals that are too quiet. 

We definitely suffer from this, it doesn't help that our backing singer does lead in places and we have some "dual lead overlapping" type vocal parts as well as some normal harmonies.

Persuading someone to join an originals band as a sound engineer is a losing abttle though

siremoon

I don't think it will work.  I don't like vocal processors personally and when I've tried them they put me off totally - maybe because of what you mentioned about the sound in my skull being at odds with what I'm hearing from the monitor feed.  Furthermore of the fx available on them I think the pitch correction features are borderline a gimmick.  They do sort of work but you have to be close-ish to the true pitch and even then I'm not convinced they work very well. 

Basically at the risk of stating the obvious I think it's difficult to get away from the premise of needing the basic ability to sing in tune.  If you can hit a note then you've got the starting raw material and there's loads of things you can do to develop into a serviceable BV singer but if you can't then a machine is not going to get you there imo.

monquixote

I bought a vocal processor as I was unconfident and the only backing vocalist. I still didn't sound very good.

I then invested in some singing lessons and sold the processor. 

koneguitarist

Nothing could help my voice. As a landlady from Bridgewater said to me once, "Taff, I hear Welshmen can either sing or play rugby, what position do you play!"

bobblehat

In my experience auto tune devices only help to mask the occasional out of tune notes and harmonizer effects only make things worse by adding additional out of tune notes.

As previously mentioned use plenty of reverb and keep yourself well down in the mix until you build some confidence.

Just practice one song at a time and only a few lines at a time or even just add a few oohs and ahhhs.

damodai

Like @monquixote I too have been taking vocal lessons and they really are worth it.  

RocknRollDave

I dep fairly regularly with a guy who uses a vocal harmonizer pedal, and personally I don't like it, just doesn't feel natural or organic or even necessary to me. Some of that may come down to user error with the settings, but ...a big "nein danke" from me.

Fez

Let your singer use the harmoniser and mime the BV's

Jeremiah

Try a vocoder?

randomhandclaps

Try hiding a very small singer down the front of your shirt!

randomhandclaps

Actually in all seriousness (and I mean this in the most constructive way possible having seen your video thread) if you are going to undertake backing vocals then your singer is going to have to become tighter and more disciplined with the melody and tuning.  It takes effort and control form both the vocalist and backing vocalist and at points your singer is a little wild.  That's OK currently but unless worked on with the backing vocals, you (as the backing vocalist) will end up with a very difficult job, feel exposed and it can knock your confidence which is unhelpful if your already apprehensive about it.  If you don't feel currently that is also achievable then I wouldn't go spend out on more equipment that may actually end up highlighting problems rather than masking them.

monquixote

randomhandclaps said:

Actually in all seriousness (and I mean this in the most constructive way possible having seen your video thread) if you are going to undertake backing vocals then your singer is going to have to become tighter and more disciplined with the melody and tuning.  It takes effort and control form both the vocalist and backing vocalist and at points your singer is a little wild.  That's OK currently but unless worked on with the backing vocals, you (as the backing vocalist) will end up with a very difficult job, feel exposed and it can knock your confidence which is unhelpful if your already apprehensive about it.  If you don't feel currently that is also achievable then I wouldn't go spend out on more equipment that may actually end up highlighting problems rather than masking them.

Wisdoms. 

You have to get very tight on phrasing to do BVs

mike257

Sensible answers here! Auto tune only really sounds somewhere approaching natural with performances that are 90% of the way there already. You can tell it what key you want to be in and it'll pull you to the nearest in key note, but the nearest isn't necessarily the right one!