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Ebay advice request - ultra-quiet buyer [sorted]

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  • ICBM said:
    Refund his payment NOW and/or insist that you will not accept a pickup. That's the way to open yourself up to a chargeback scam.

    ONLY ship via a trackable, signed-for courier service or you're not covered by any sort of Paypal protection.
    ^This.
    Paypal does not have any flexibility to cover for pickup.

    the scam works like this:
    I pay paypal and pickup on collection
    I pay
    I collect
    I claim to Paypal that buyer hasn't sent item
    Paypal freeze your account whilst they investigate.
    Paypal write to you to advise Proof or Postage
    You can't as it was collected. You can't even prove you gave it to the buyer.
    Paypal refund the item.
    Buyer get's item and his money.

    You have to report to police as fraud, but police can't do much unless they can prove buyer has the item.

    There is noway to stop this.

    Refund the payment, say buyer is unresponsive. Walk away. Don't do it again.
    Ebay traps you as you have to accept a paypal payment and offer it on the auction, it is not a good site for collection,

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  • Tell him he's welcome, but cash on collection only.

    Job done. If he doesn't show, relist.
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  • Tell him he's welcome, but cash on collection only.

    Job done. If he doesn't show, relist.
    Done that.

    @Teetonetal - I get what you're saying, but he responded AFTER I refunded the paypal payment, so it's not completely unresponsive. I'll see what he says to this. Probably nothing. And he'll either show up tomorrow or not.

    It wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't won it for fucking buttons.
    If you must have sex with a frog, wear a condom. If you want the frog to have fun, rib it.
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  • Well, I've learned something today… thanks guys :-)
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  • xmrchixmrchi Frets: 2810
    Only responding after the refund rings a bell with me, please make sure it's cash in collection!
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  • Tell him he's welcome, but cash on collection only.

    Job done. If he doesn't show, relist.
    Done that.

    @Teetonetal - I get what you're saying, but he responded AFTER I refunded the paypal payment, so it's not completely unresponsive. I'll see what he says to this. Probably nothing. And he'll either show up tomorrow or not.

    It wouldn't be so bad if he hadn't won it for fucking buttons.
    If you refunded the payment already and he now pays you cash, then you are all good as the transaction no longer falls under paypal... 

    Hope it goes well for you!
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  • mrchi said:
    Only responding after the refund rings a bell with me, please make sure it's cash in collection!
    I have done. Sent a message saying "Well why did you only respond after I refunded the paypal? Sorry, but it's cash only now. Be here at 11 tomorrow or it's off."

    He's read it according to ebay. We'll see if he shows.
    If you must have sex with a frog, wear a condom. If you want the frog to have fun, rib it.
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  • I have an ebay problem but it's undeserving of its own thread, small value item.

    Buyer with good feedback has been in touch to say that the item hasn't arrived and that the expected delivery date 'keeps getting pushed back' (from 2nd Feb, now up to the 24th Feb).

    Problem is that I didn't add any tracking information, just posted it 2nd class, so where on earth is he getting this 'expected delivery date' info from??

    I will be refunding him with an apology in any event but am confused.  

    Anybody had this happen to them when an item hasn't arrived?


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  • ADPADP Frets: 184
    Have you marked it as "dispatched"?
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1631
    edited February 2015
    ADP said:
    Have you marked it as "dispatched"?
    Yeah, I buy and print the postage directly from ebay and that marks it as dispatched automatically.

    I've asked the buyer where he's seeing this estimated delivery date, there's no way ebay or paypal would know when it's due if it got lost in the post. I don't get it. 
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  • BranshenBranshen Frets: 1222
    @streethawk you hit the nail on the head. Where is he getting this information from? If he's good with replying msgs, ask him this before refunding him. Tell him that you're concerned that royal mail has lost his package.

    You made the error of sending it unrecorded, so if there's anything amiss, you will be refunding the buyer.
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1631
    edited February 2015
    Branshen said:
    @streethawk you hit the nail on the head. Where is he getting this information from? If he's good with replying msgs, ask him this before refunding him. Tell him that you're concerned that royal mail has lost his package.

    You made the error of sending it unrecorded, so if there's anything amiss, you will be refunding the buyer.
    Oh yeah, I don't mind refunding something that gets lost in the post as long as it's once in a blue moon. Royal Mail do pretty well for me. Normally I have a receipt from the post office so I'll probably be able to apply for a refund anyway. Bit of a crapper for the buyer. 

    Anything over a certain price I send signed for or special delivery.

    Maybe the post office are holding it or something? Will see what the buyer says. 

    EDIT: looks like this is just some sort of auto glitch on ebay. If he's not received it he's not received it. Will refund immediately. 

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  • Philly_QPhilly_Q Frets: 22516
    ICBM said:
    Refund his payment NOW and/or insist that you will not accept a pickup. That's the way to open yourself up to a chargeback scam.

    ONLY ship via a trackable, signed-for courier service or you're not covered by any sort of Paypal protection.
    ^This.
    Paypal does not have any flexibility to cover for pickup.

    the scam works like this:
    I pay paypal and pickup on collection
    I pay
    I collect
    I claim to Paypal that buyer hasn't sent item
    Paypal freeze your account whilst they investigate.
    Paypal write to you to advise Proof or Postage
    You can't as it was collected. You can't even prove you gave it to the buyer.
    Paypal refund the item.
    Buyer get's item and his money.

    Does that happen as soon as I (the buyer) open a PayPal dispute?

    I've got a situation where I've bought a Tele neck from a guy in the USA, I paid through PayPal then heard nothing from him for three weeks, despite trying to contact him.  Today I opened a PayPal case (not actually a claim for a refund - yet) and suddenly the guy's emailed me and even phoned up, saying my neck's ready to ship.

    I don't want to close the dispute until I at least get tracking details for the shipment, but I feel bad if he's legit and his PayPal account's been frozen. 

    I'm not sure what to do now..... can I close a PayPal dispute then re-open it (or a new one) if I still don't receive the item?



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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    If its picked up from home, surely the simple solution is to prepare a dated and timed 'receipt' that confirms collection that you both sign - you keep the original, buyer gets copy.  And you ask for (and copy) proof of ID just to be doubly safe. That way you can prove he collected it.  
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    @Voxman - Paypal won't accept any receipt other that their accepted proof of postage. Effectively, Paypal won't accept any 'proof' from the seller, only from third parties like courrier companies. Thats why I always buy postage labels through eBay so that if there is any dispute, eBay would have to argue with its own records, not mine.

    As one of the helpline guys told me, they aren't a court, just a process. Follow their process and you're ok. Don't follow it and, if you're a seller, you lose. Every time.
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  • VoxmanVoxman Frets: 4718
    Chalky said:
    @Voxman - Paypal won't accept any receipt other that their accepted proof of postage. Effectively, Paypal won't accept any 'proof' from the seller, only from third parties like courrier companies. Thats why I always buy postage labels through eBay so that if there is any dispute, eBay would have to argue with its own records, not mine.

    As one of the helpline guys told me, they aren't a court, just a process. Follow their process and you're ok. Don't follow it and, if you're a seller, you lose. Every time.
    I didn't realise that - bummer!
    I started out with nothing..... but I've still got most of it left (Seasick Steve)
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  • Well after all that he finally showed and paid in cash. He was even ten minutes early, too. So there you go.

    What a palaver. Never again.*

    Oh, and I hope @Streethawk gets his problem sorted, too.



    *Well, I probably will eventually, but you know what I mean
    If you must have sex with a frog, wear a condom. If you want the frog to have fun, rib it.
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  • imaloneimalone Frets: 748
    Chalky said:
    @Voxman - Paypal won't accept any receipt other that their accepted proof of postage. Effectively, Paypal won't accept any 'proof' from the seller, only from third parties like courrier companies. Thats why I always buy postage labels through eBay so that if there is any dispute, eBay would have to argue with its own records, not mine.

    As one of the helpline guys told me, they aren't a court, just a process. Follow their process and you're ok. Don't follow it and, if you're a seller, you lose. Every time.
    I can't help but wonder if their inflexible adherence to 'process' makes them accessories to fraud. How much protection do they have as arbitrators?
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  • streethawkstreethawk Frets: 1631
    edited February 2015
    Well after all that he finally showed and paid in cash. He was even ten minutes early, too. So there you go.

    What a palaver. Never again.*

    Oh, and I hope @Streethawk gets his problem sorted, too.



    *Well, I probably will eventually, but you know what I mean
    Cheers, all sorted now. 

    Must have got lost in the post - not much can be done. I've refunded him.

    Glad you're finally sorted, what a pain!
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  • ChalkyChalky Frets: 6807
    @imalone - can't check right now but last time I looked Paypal is heading towards being a bank. Part of the reason for separating from eBay. So they are subject to financial regulation, a job I did a few decades ago. Guess what we used to inspect for to prove good behaviour? Yes, clear and transparent process that provided the highest protection for customers. Where Paypal and Ebay fall down is they aren't very clear in telling private sellers that the process effectively treats them as business sellers (but with higher fees). Buyers are, in effect, customers as represented in the various laws around retail business. If you look up retail law, the protection for customers/buyers fills a phone book whereas the protection for sellers might stretch to several sheets of A4.
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