hybrid acoustic / electric guitars, any opinions?

4114Effects

So here's the thing. when I'm not leading, I play backing guitar for a lively church worship group.

I take my acoustic guitar which is fine, as a lot of the songs will be straightforward strumming and fingerpicking. Ocasionally though sons could do with a little more oomph. At present I mix in a little overdrive from a ts808, run through a cab sim then blended with the acoustic signal. It's OK, but the distortion never works well with the piezo pickups.

I had planned on adding a standard guitar pickup to my acoustic but that might not work wrll with bronze strings and could lead to all sorts of feedback issues.

Piezo on a solid bodied has never quite sounded good enough to me either.

Has anyone played a hybrid guitar like the Michael Kelly Hybrid, or the Cort SA for example? The MK looks to do everything I need, but I'm sceptical about the acoustic tone. It does sound good on the video but I guess may have been processed?

Any other suggestions? Cheers!

Richardj

Calling @erky32 and his Godin.

ICBM

I love hybrid acoustic-electric sounds, clean full-range electric and overdriven "acoustic", and I've used several different guitars that do it in different ways.

When I had a Taylor electro-acoustic - with the older Fishman electrics - the overdriven piezo sound was dreadful and very feedback-prone, so I fitted a Rare Earth soundhole pickup, which worked very well. Because it's designed for acoustic strings the balance problem is taken care of. I wired it in with the standard electrics, which by accident worked very well - it's not designed for that, but the way I connected it had the magnetic only going through the onboard volume control, so I could blend the piezo in or out to a large extent by using its EQ, with the volume control affecting both pickups.

But it was still too feedback-prone with heavy distortion, so I switched to a Fender HMT acoustic-electric Telecaster, which is essentially a Tele thinline with a wooden acoustic bridge and piezo pickup, and a magnetic neck pickup. The wooden bridge makes a big difference - the piezo sound is vastly more natural than any other solidbody with piezo saddles I've heard. I slightly wish I hadn't sold this one, but I didn't like the neck.

Godin Acousticaster - briefly tried, very much more of an electro-acoustic than an electric. It sounded OK as an acoustic, but didn't sound at all good overdriven and I didn't like the neck again. (Like the Fender, too wide and flat and with too-big frets - typical in the 90s.) It felt flimsy and insubstantial too, although it probably wasn't.

The last one will surprise you… Rickenbacker 381. Yes, it's an electric guitar. But it sounds amazingly good DI'd as an electro-acoustic - not "like" an acoustic or even like a piezo electro, but just naturally good and quite acoustic-y. Better, it has split stereo outputs so you can run one pickup to the DI (neck is best) and one (bridge is best) to electric guitar amplification (amp or amp-simulator to the PA) and blend the two or switch between them on the fly using the toggle switch on the guitar. The 381 is a very expensive guitar - I acquired it by accident without realising how much so! - but the 360 is also stereo-wired so that would work too, or the 330 if you only want the simplest solution.

I'd expect to be able to get similar sounds out of a Gretsch, possibly with a bit of modification, too.

4114Effects

Thanks for that, I'll see if I can try a Ricky at some point. I I can get past the looks that is. Never been a fan of their appearance! :-)

Sassafras

ICBM,

Could you arrange for me to "accidentally" acquire a 381 as well, please?

John_P

I keep looking at the Taylor T5 on here to give an alternative for some of the acoustic gigs I do.   It looks the part and should give enough of both sounds to be interesting.  If I hadn't just bought another amp I'd have grabbed it.

ICBM

4114Effects said:

Thanks for that, I'll see if I can try a Ricky at some point. I I can get past the looks that is. Never been a fan of their appearance! :-)

Wait til you use one at a gig and afterwards all sorts of women come and compliment you on your guitar. Even young attractive ones . Then you'll think they look brilliant.

This isn't a joke, it really happens, other Rick owners will testify! It has to be the guitar, since it's happened to me many times, and never with any other guitar so it isn't me or my playing .

Actually a bigger hurdle is the neck - you'll either love them (like me and about five other people) or hate them (like almost everyone else).

TonyR

ICBM said:

Actually a bigger hurdle is the neck - you'll either love them (like me and about five other people) or hate them (like almost everyone else).

I must be one of those 5 then!

Another 381 owner here too - but mine's a 12-string.

Never having gigged or played mine in public I can't vouch for Rickenbackers enhancing your prowess amongst the ladies though! 

steamabacus

You might look out for an old Yamaha AEX-500


A mate of mine has one and uses it for everything from acoustic strumming to low volume ultra-distorted feedback. Nice playing guitar and sounds pretty good, although the piezo pickup benefits from a decent acoustic preamp pedal (my Trace Acoustic TAC1 worked well with it).

richardhomer

John_P;539420" said:

I keep looking at the Taylor T5 on here to give an alternative for some of the acoustic gigs I do.   It looks the part and should give enough of both sounds to be interesting.  If I hadn't just bought another amp I'd have grabbed it.

The T5 is a guitar I'd love to love - but in reality (and I'm a big fan of Taylors generally) doesn't 'quite' work.

The first issue for me is that the neck is far too thin for any guitar with 'acoustic' pretentions. Even compared to most main-stream electrics, it feels skinny....

The second point is that it is not possible to separate the 'acoustic' and 'electric' sounds - which really limits its versatility.

If these things were remedied, it might well be one of the most interesting instruments on the market.

John_P

I think I can live with the thin neck - it's a shame the output can't be separated but if it's plugged into a modelling preamp or super super clean amp then I can live with that as well.    I use a graph tech ghost on my prs and I rarely use the acoustic amp even though I have the option.    

I suspect what I really want is another acoustic with a dinky body and comfy neck that gives good amplified acoustic sounds and the T5 looks pretty.

Phil_aka_Pip

People that play acoustic (strumming especially but probably also picking) are more than ten a penny. You can always find plenty of those. Let them get on with it, it's about as much as they can handle. In the meantime if you've got a half-decent semi acoustic (perhaps with coil taps) plus a little DDL and chorus, you can arpeggiate the chord sequence and play fills; add an overdrive pedal and you can "solo" or at least weave in and out of the vocal melody.

axisus

I always liked the look of the Fender Acoustasonic Telecaster but I haven't tried one 

Incidentally, I spend most of my time playing Christian worship song instrumentals.

4114Effects

Looks lovely, but they've left out the most important part of any tele, the bridge pickup! Add one of those and I'd be sold ...

ICBM

axisus said:

I always liked the look of the Fender Acoustasonic Telecaster but I haven't tried one 

I think that's the most awful-looking thing - it's quite obvious that the wooden block is just a bodge to cover the bridge pickup rout and stop them having to make a proper body for it. Amateurish, cheap-looking and nasty. I expected much better from Fender.

Putting the controls for the piezo in the side is as bad, it's just an awkward ugly bodge.

This is how to do it right:

http://www.theangelconversations.com/pics/FenderHMT.jpg

Or if you want the 'Tele bridge' version with dual electrics, this:

http://www.guitarmaniacs.de/gallery_pics/big/vPaEvjNhbcKLGptBS3j9HVVPL.jpg

Or even this, which is the original Acoustasonic Tele and is actually a very well-thought-out original design, although perhaps not a Telecaster…

http://www.shufflejunkies.com/Rogers Gear1/Fender Telecoustic2.jpg

erky32

I'll tell you about my experiments with acoustics electrified following @Richardj prompt, bit slow off the mark been playing away all weekend. I've put posts on here already re same hybrid subject.

I have a Larrivee acoustic which I wanted some amplification, but also some drive - I tried LR Baggs M1 soundhole pup, and whilst it did an excellent clean acoustic job, it would not take any drive ...it just howled. Eventually I settled for a Seymour Duncan Woody XL. It is a non intrusive soundhole pup that slides into position, gives a quality clean acoustic repro but since it is a humbucker you stick a TS on it and it will drive well. Also having separate adjustable poles you can compensate for either electric or phosphor bronze strings.

To continue my interest in being able to run hybrid I also tried a slim Crafter SAT, appearance of a T5 but a lot cheaper. I soon sold it, first the build quality was poor, the piezo had bad energy communication from saddle to body so I ended up potting the transducer in modellers clay. That worked but I was dissappointed at the acoustic reproduction from the piezo- it sounded thin and "piezo", but also the P90 had a very uninspiring electric sound, dull,  ....so it went! I've now settled on a Godin Ultra A6 ....lovely guitar, nice playable electric style neck, lowered the action. The acoustic pup is a piezo, but Godin work some magic with the preamp and the sound is very good acoustic, especially when you bleed a tad of the humbucker to fatten the sound. The Godin humbucker will take full sat drive, with a nice amount of controlable feedback at high volume. Balance, feel and appearance are top notch - it really is a pleasure to play. You can split you r signal to acoustic amp / PA DI and a elec amp, but to be honest I just use a good quality tube amp (H&K 18w Tubemeister) and mix into the single output and it works a dream across the board.

As a stand up and play guitar I would go for the Godin type body every time it's just so easy to play. I must admit , having been an elec player all my life, I just dont feel comfy standing with and full sized acoustic!

RaymondLin

I have the T5, I use it more for its acoustic sounds than electric.  If you want more electric feel, I'd look into the T5z, the neck of that is closer to most electric guitars.

grungebob

Ovation vxt, damn nice guitars and the acoustic and electric pickups all sound excellent

4114Effects

Thanks for the advice guys. I've gone out on a limb and decided to try the Martin Kelly Hybrid. Found one for a reasonable price used. Will let you know a verdict once it arrives!

BigMonka

4114Effects;541687" said:

Thanks for the advice guys. I've gone out on a limb and decided to try the Martin Kelly Hybrid. Found one for a reasonable price used. Will let you know a verdict once it arrives!

I'll be interested to hear your thoughts on this. Do you have any other guitarists playing with you who could add the heavier sounds? I've previously run my acoustic with a bit of crunch when leading worship, but haven't found it to be as good as having another (electric) guitarist and having the acoustic lower in the mix.

I tried leading with my Thinline at our church practice on Friday night and the thing which I found was really missing was the dynamics you can get out of an acoustic. The other musicians take their cues from what I'm doing (e.g if we're building the sound up, or quietening down etc) but they just couldn't pick up those small changes in dynamic with the thinline. It could just be a learning process for us as a group, but I also can't help thinking that I should stick with what works. If the Hybrid can really do both then you're on to a winner!

ICBM

BigMonka said:

I tried leading with my Thinline at our church practice on Friday night and the thing which I found was really missing was the dynamics you can get out of an acoustic. The other musicians take their cues from what I'm doing (e.g if we're building the sound up, or quietening down etc) but they just couldn't pick up those small changes in dynamic with the thinline.

What string gauge do you have on your Thinline? I find that makes a big difference - you get much more acoustic-guitar dynamics if you put acoustic-guitar string gauges on them... 11s or 12s with a wound 3rd. You can hit them much harder as you would with an acoustic without them going out of tune like light electric strings do.