I'm sick of b*ggering around with chords.....

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.......and my 'Bert Weedon learn guitar in a day' book. Can I just play triads......and be under the illusion (delusion) that I'm playing jazz!
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    Yes, remember that most chords are made of notes a third apart, so:

    A minor triad is Fmaj7 (without the root)
    D minor triad is Fmaj6 (without the root)

    If you try the Mickey Baker Jazz chord book he will teach you about 28 voicings that have loads of applications.

    Personally I love finding new uses for old chord almost as much as mastering new chords :)


    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • Phil_aka_PipPhil_aka_Pip Frets: 9794
    chord "identities" such as those to which @Frankus alludes are very useful, in similar manner to knowing that sin squared x + cos squared x = 1. You can usually substitute something simpler for something that looks complex, or you can make something that sounds complex by playing something simple over a different root.

    A few from the key of C major:

    Cmaj7 = E-/C
    Cmaj9 = E-7/C
    D-7 = F/D
    D-9 = Fmaj7/D
    E-7 = G/E
    E-7-9 = G7/E
    Fmaj7 = A-/F
    Fmaj9 = A-7/F
    G9 = B-7-5/G
    A- = unrooted Fmaj7
    Bdim = unrooted G7

    "Working" software has only unobserved bugs. (Parroty Error: Pieces of Nine! Pieces of Nine!)
    Seriously: If you value it, take/fetch it yourself
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    edited March 2015
    I wasn't aware I was alluding, I've elected to forget everything I know about theory because it ruins everything except training the ears and hands.

    I'd rather give someone a little bit of information so they can own their discovery.

    In each key there are really only three sounds: the root chord, the second chord and the fifth chord.
    The root chord is notes 1 3 5 and 7
    The second chord is 2 4 6 and 1
    The fifth chord is 5 7 2 and 4

    Everything else is a blend of two of those - with a stronger pull to one sound or the other.

    Means chords divide into 3 camps, synonyms for those sounds, for instance:

    I: C, E-
    ii: D-, F
    V: G7, B-7b5

    The more diatonic notes you add to those the more blurred the lines become.

    Use non-diatonic notes and you're dabbling with modes and your children will all be drummers. ;)
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    .......and my 'Bert Weedon learn guitar in a day' book. Can I just play triads......and be under the illusion (delusion) that I'm playing jazz!

    Chords are just collections of notes played simultaneously, if you know the fretboard, you know where the notes are located, then you can play collections of notes simultaneously as chords.

    The problem is that most people don't really learn the fretboard, so they don't know the location of the notes, so they rely on just using moveable chord shapes.

    Interestingly, most piano players don't rely on just using chord shapes. :(
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited March 2015
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited March 2015
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • frankusfrankus Frets: 4719
    GuyBoden said:

    Interestingly, most piano players don't rely on just using chord shapes. :(
    Piano players play the same notes with the same fingers, the notes are in a linear pattern and the keys don't get smaller the higher the notes get.

    f*cking cheats.

    Now, banjo, slide guitarists and ukelele players do rely on chord shapes ;)
    A sig-nat-eur? What am I meant to use this for ffs?! Is this thing recording?
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited March 2015
    frankus said:
    GuyBoden said:

    Interestingly, most piano players don't rely on just using chord shapes. :(
    Piano players play the same notes with the same fingers, the notes are in a linear pattern and the keys don't get smaller the higher the notes get.

    f*cking cheats.

    Now, banjo, slide guitarists and ukelele players do rely on chord shapes ;)
    And most Guitarists rely on moveable chords shapes.....................

    Actually IMHO, most guitarists just want to learn a few tunes, they don't want to put years of dedicated disciplined practice into learning to play the guitar. ;)
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16254
    Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one...
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • GIJoeGIJoe Frets: 213
    Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one... not play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?

    Surely it's play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?

    "Nobody is really researching robot jokes"

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  • EricTheWearyEricTheWeary Frets: 16254
    GIJoe;565773" said:
    EricTheWeary said:

    Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one... not play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?







    Surely it's play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?
    Err, I , err.



    :((
    Tipton is a small fishing village in the borough of Sandwell. 
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    edited March 2015
    GIJoe;565773" said:
    EricTheWeary said:

    Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one... not play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?







    Surely it's play one miss one play one miss one play one play one...?
    Err, I , err.



    :((
    IMHO, most guitarists just want to learn a few tunes, they don't want to put the years and years of dedicated, disciplined practice into learning to play the guitar to reach an advanced level like pro classical guitarists. ;)

    Yes, "Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one" is thirds based harmony "Tertian Harmony", that's what most (but not all) western harmony is based on. >:D<

    But, why restrict yourself to just using tertian harmony when quartal, quintal and secundal harmonies are nice too..............
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • Play one, miss one? Tertian harmony? Quartal, quintal and secundal harmonies? What the !!! Bert....where are you? Are you still in the cardboard&paper recycling box? Sorry that I dissed you! I need you so I can play your beginners chords. Might try triads/jazz next week.
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  • GuyBodenGuyBoden Frets: 733
    Play one, miss one? Tertian harmony? Quartal, quintal and secundal harmonies? What the !!! Bert....where are you? Are you still in the cardboard&paper recycling box? Sorry that I dissed you! I need you so I can play your beginners chords. Might try triads/jazz next week.
    Easy really.

    Tertian Harmony is building chords with every third note of a scale.

    Quartal Harmony is building chords with every fourth note in a scale.

    Quintal Harmony is building chords with every fifth note in a scale.

    Secundal Harmony is building chords with every second note in a scale. (Inverted Seconds are my fav.)

    Tertian Harmony, stacked thirds are the chords you have been playing\hearing all your life, it's Western music, alluded to by building chords with "Play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one play one miss one".

    Have fun, just play, you don't need theory.....................
    :D
    "Music makes the rules, music is not made from the rules."
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  • vizviz Frets: 10647
    edited March 2015
    Agree with all of that apart from the last 4 words, after all your post was a perfect example of how theory can give a name to a concept! :)

    "Music theory is the study of the practices and possibilities of music. It generally derives from observation of how musicians and composers make music, but includes hypothetical speculation. Most commonly, the term describes the academic study and analysis of fundamental elements of music such as pitch, rhythm, harmony, and form, but also refers to descriptions, concepts, or beliefs related to music."
    Roland said: Scales are primarily a tool for categorising knowledge, not a rule for what can or cannot be played.
    Supportact said: [my style is] probably more an accumulation of limitations and bad habits than a 'style'.
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