Digital Amps a Warning From History

crunchman

Danny1969 said:

crunchman said:

There is also the saving in running costs with digital.  If you are running a valve amp on a semi-regular basis then I'd guess you need to budget at least £20 a year for replacement valves.  If you are a pro and using it a lot then probably more than that.  Over 15 or 20 years that will add up.

I haven't changed a single valve in any amp for the last 5 years or more despite doing a 100 odd gigs a year.  I know valve amps are supposed to be unreliable but in my experience they aren't 

Not my experience.  It does depend on the amp.  When I had a Peavey Classic 30 I needed a new set of power valves at least once a year.  My current amp is a lot better but I had a play on another one in a shop recently and I'm wondering if one or two valves are a bit tired in mine - I'm not sure it has got the top end detail or smooth breakup of the other one I played.  I also had a preamp valve go bad in it last year.

Drew_TNBD

Changed plenty of valves myself. But they just sound good, so fuck it.

Look at the cost of the Axe FX Ultra when it came out. It wasn't cheap. Look at them now... you can often find them for about 40-50% lower than what they retailed for.

This seems to be a similar story for other bits of digital gear too.

HarrySeven

About a year ago, I bought a pair of these for £40 each:






In 2001, the RRP was £1099.

They're stereo, loud and versatile.

Heartfeltdawn

Over the last few years some of the classic digital synths have gone up in value as part of the 80's throwback revival. Analog electronics has gone in and out of style and prices have varied accordingly. Digital guitar amps probably won't do the same as I can't imagine a musical genre based around digital amp sounds from the early 21st century. There's also the supply issue: there's a lot more crappy digital guitar amps in good nick out there than there is top condition Ensoniq ESQ-1 amps for instance. 

p90fool

crunchman;620571" said:

There is also the saving in running costs with digital.  If you are running a valve amp on a semi-regular basis then I'd guess you need to budget at least £20 a year for replacement valves.  If you are a pro and using it a lot then probably more than that.  Over 15 or 20 years that will add up.

I think my gigs will cover £20 per year fairly comfortably. Given that I've been spending about a tenner per week on strings for the last three decades I think that the running costs/sound quality equation of a good valve amp to be a bit of a bargain tbh.

I still use a digital modeller for various jobs these days, but a quick glance through the cupboards throws up units from Line6, Zoom, Oberheim, Behringer and others, none of which I've plugged in for ten years, despite being evangelical about how brilliant they were when I bought them.

Totting up the prices I paid is truly scary too, I could've easily bought Les Paul Custom for what I paid originally for half a dozen obsolete pieces of crap.

mellowsun

richardhomer;620295" said:

I suspect the 'future' for gigging guitarists will be small, high powered 'acoustic' type amps (ie full range, flat frequency response 'mini PAs') with software modelled amps run from phones/iPads, with foot controllers to allow 'channel' switching.

I thought that too, and was hoping that my AER Compact 60 would fit the bill, but it really doesn't. Nylon and acoustics sound fantastic through it but electric guitar plus modeller or preamp plus speaker sim doesn't, it lacks the 3d sound that a good combo or head plus cabs will give you.

57Deluxe

one day, the EU will ban valves...

monquixote

57Deluxe;620960" said:

one day, the EU will ban valves...

It's so niche it's not worth doing

OilCityPickups

paulmapp8306 said:

Is shouldn't be about resale valve.  If you ever thinking in terms of "how much would I get when I sell", then you shouldn't be buying it.

I'm gobsmacked ... people arguing for just enjoying gear and not worrying about it's resale value ... normally you lot would all whinge about the resale value of your picks ... maybe I've taken too many painkillers and am hallucinating  @-)

rpr

monquixote said:

57Deluxe;620960" said:

one day, the EU will ban valves...

It's so niche it's not worth doing

I suspect that if it did happen it would be indirectly, maybe a ban on the import/export of something that valves would fall into the category.

 Also would I be correct in thinking that most valves come from the USSR? If relations really broke down, Putin is bonkers enough just to shut down Russian routes with the West- They probably are self sufficient enough to manage, regardless of the effects on the living standards of the normal citizens.

As for digital amps- I would say the main difference nowadays is the ability to upgrade the software and to some extent the hardware functions, which should stop them becoming redundant so quickly. 

ICBM

mellowsun said:

I thought that too, and was hoping that my AER Compact 60 would fit the bill, but it really doesn't. Nylon and acoustics sound fantastic through it but electric guitar plus modeller or preamp plus speaker sim doesn't, it lacks the 3d sound that a good combo or head plus cabs will give you.

I've probably said this before in which case I apologise for sounding like a stuck record , but there's also a serious risk of damaging either the amp or the speaker. Acoustic amps are designed for a signal with a high ratio of transient peaks to average power, and won't like being made to reproduce a much more constant, compressed electric-guitar sound with a much higher average power. I've seen an AER with a blown speaker from doing this, and several other acoustic amps damaged by either electric guitars or keyboards being put through them.

bingefeller

viz said:

Any mag with steve Vai in it - you know where to send it

I have a Vai interview and lesson from 1993 in pdf format if you're interested.  It has Steve Vai and Devin Townsend talking about S&R.

Heartfeltdawn

57Deluxe said:

one day, the EU will ban valves...

Tell Farage that Russian and Chinese valves are coming over and taking the amp slots that would have been filled by good honest British valves. 

rpr said:

 Also would I be correct in thinking that most valves come from the USSR? If relations really broke down, Putin is bonkers enough just to shut down Russian routes with the West- They probably are self sufficient enough to manage, regardless of the effects on the living standards of the normal citizens.

Imagine the Gear Page threads if that did happen. "Putin kills rock and roll - the day the tone died'. 

ICBM

Heartfeltdawn said:

57Deluxe said:

one day, the EU will ban valves...

Tell Farage that Russian and Chinese valves are coming over and taking the amp slots that would have been filled by good honest British valves. 

rpr said:

 Also would I be correct in thinking that most valves come from the USSR? If relations really broke down, Putin is bonkers enough just to shut down Russian routes with the West- They probably are self sufficient enough to manage, regardless of the effects on the living standards of the normal citizens.

Imagine the Gear Page threads if that did happen. "Putin kills rock and roll - the day the tone died'. 

They'll be lining up for forming a posse and going over there with their guns to make them restart production. The damn commies.

Fiftyshadesofjay

You could argue it's a fairly moot point as most proponents of ever changing guitar technology normally update their gear incrementally along with the manufacturer. 

For example, sure the Axe FX Standard has lost value, but considering most people would have upgraded to the Ultra and then the 2 when they came out, the actual financial hit would have been less as the previous machine would still have a decent resale value at the time of upgrading. 

sted

Hmm, well, I sold my Axe Fx 2 for exactly what I paid for it in about two days flat. My Matchless looks like it's going nowhere despite having a great reputation for tone and build quality,

midlifecrisis

I predict digital amps will take over and become the norm, then new valve amps will be designed trying to create the sounds of digital modellers

monquixote

midlifecrisis said:

I predict digital amps will take over and become the norm, then new valve amps will be designed trying to create the sounds of digital modellers

At that point what will they be modelling

Heartfeltdawn

monquixote said:

At that point what will they be modelling

By then someone will have worked out the mathematics behind mojo and everything will have loaded with modelled mojo. 

Drew_TNBD

I've been to a bunch of gigs now where guitarists have used modellers. It seems to be a lot more difficult to get punch and thump without huge transformers and huge power valves - imho.

The gigs where they went straight to the PA (Tesseract, Monuments, Animals As Leaders) the tones just sounded thin and headphoney to me - and I'm not a valve snob! I'll use whatever sounds good and I own a Kemper.

But I'm not convinced by a 100% digital replacement system.